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List of Optimal ME levels for BPO's
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K1NGP1NUK
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-03-21 09:34:18 UTC
Hey all you industrial guys .

I was wondering if there was a list available of what the Optimal ME level would be for each BPO .

I know I can find them indiviually on http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/inventory_search.php which is a great site .
But I would just wanna see a full list so I can import it to XLS and compare agains my set of BPO's
Any help is welcome
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2 - 2013-03-21 11:12:23 UTC
Biggest problem: Define optimal.


If you can do that, then it should be fairly simple to throw together.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
quygen
Acting Neutral
#3 - 2013-03-21 12:59:32 UTC
Use this

BPO Calc
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-03-21 13:26:20 UTC
K1NGP1NUK wrote:
Hey all you industrial guys .

I was wondering if there was a list available of what the Optimal ME level would be for each BPO .

I know I can find them indiviually on http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/inventory_search.php which is a great site .
But I would just wanna see a full list so I can import it to XLS and compare agains my set of BPO's
Any help is welcome


Usually ME 20 is enough when you hit ME 20 you need about another 100 or so to reduce the mineral cost like 1-3 times.

Capitals are different though.

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2013-03-21 15:42:31 UTC
quygen wrote:
Use this

BPO Calc



Right here....most indeed.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2013-03-22 00:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
culo duro wrote:
Usually ME 20 is enough when you hit ME 20 you need about another 100 or so to reduce the mineral cost like 1-3 times.

Capitals are different though.

To put ME 20 into perspective, at 10% base waste that is 10% / (20 + 1) < 0.476% waste. It is fine for nearly everything.

My personal general guidelines:
* Limit research to 30 days or less.
* Research all ammo, scripts, probes, and cap charges to perfect ME, and 60 PE.
* Small rigs don't need research unless they have material counts of 6 or higher.
* Ships and most everything else is good at ME 20 + PE 2, unless they are capitals.
* Structure, PI, Compression, and Hybrid Component BPO do not benefit from ME research, but they do benefit from PE research.
* BPO used to make BPC for invention do not require any research.

Researching to perfect is not always practical, except where mentioned above.

Perfect ME for 10% base waste BPO = FLOOR(highest material count subject to waste at ME 0 / 5.5)
Perfect ME for 5% base waste BPO = FLOOR(highest material count subject to waste at ME 0 / 10.5)

FLOOR() means round to 0, ignore everything to the right of the decimal.

Similarly, when can get less than 1 second of wasted production time per run = FLOOR(production time in seconds at PE 0 / 5)

Don't over-research!

Example - large control tower: The most time that can be saved is 25%. As it takes about 1 day to manufacture at PE 0, you can save about 4.8 hours of manufacturing time maximum. +1 PE on a large control tower BPO takes about a month, and that saves about 3 hours. It will take more than 30 * 24 / 3 = 240 towers to break even, so nearly a year of constant manufacturing! Not really worth the research time.

Always DO THE MATH!
K1NGP1NUK
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-22 14:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: K1NGP1NUK
On the site I linked there is an optimal level for each BPO so I could do it manual .
But with this formula that was posted I could potenitaly calculate it myself .
Next question would then be where can I get overview of Base ME values of all Blueprints Shocked



WIll give it a try and keep you all updated .

Thx again for all the feedback

King
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#8 - 2013-03-22 14:22:28 UTC
K1NGP1NUK wrote:
On the site I linked there is an optimal level for each BPO so I could do it manual .
But with this formula that was posted I could potenitaly calculate it myself .
WIll give it a try and keep you all updated .

Thx again for all the feedback

King



If all you want is the waste free level, I can get that for you in about 2 minutes. (including time to log onto my db server, and stick it on the web).

But the waste free level can take years to research, to save a single trit. So it's not optimal.

Hence my 'define optimal'

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2013-03-22 20:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I like using this site, as it shows extra materials separately, though I don't think it has all the latest BPO changes:
http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/items/Blueprint/

Chruker's can be handy at times too:
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/market.php?group_id=2

Oh and if you are wondering where my math came from: Formula for calculating perfect ME/PE? (post #18 has formula derivation, post #5 has links to examples of applying it).

BPO Calc simply uses the formula to find perfect (0 waste) for each material count. The highest quantity is typically Tritanium, and it is the least expensive mineral, so there is rarely a need to have 0 waste on it. Typically if you have 0 waste on Mexallon or Isogen, that's adequate, but hard to do for ships so Megacyte and Zydrine at 0 waste is more reasonable. If you have 0 waste on a given material count, you will have 0 waste on all the lower material counts too.

Note that there is no waste on materials marked as extra. These appear in-game only on manufacturing quotes (you do not need materials to get a manufacturing quote).
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-03-22 23:36:32 UTC
K1NGP1NUK wrote:
Next question would then be where can I get overview of Base ME values of all Blueprints

You can get a full list of base values from the static data dump from the community toolkit:
http://community.eveonline.com/community/toolkit.asp
MySQL versions for those who don't want MSSQL: http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/dump/

If you need the free (called "express") version of SQL Server:
http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/en/us/editions/2012-editions/express.aspx

Two posts on working with the database from the toolkit:
http://k162space.com/2012/04/13/working-with-eve-static-data/
http://phoenixdiaries.co.uk/eve-online-database-dump

Description of the tables involved:
http://wiki.eve-id.net/Category:CCP_DB_Tables

Sample Bill of Materials for T1 item:
http://wiki.eve-id.net/Bill_of_Materials
"Bill of Materials" is manufacturing-speak for "what do I need to make X".

For most basic manufacturing, you don't need anything more than a few casual glances at the BPO calc page and Chruker's site.

For more advanced stuff, you want to look into IPH (Isk Per Hour).
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=727314

Recommended skills:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=727314#post727314
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#11 - 2013-03-25 13:36:59 UTC
I wonder why no one has linked this one yet: http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/index.php
Been using this one for a while, quite helpful if you intend to find an ME level high enough to reduce waste to a reasonable minimum, but still low enough to keep the research time as short as possible.

"Optimal" ME is a matter of perspective, as others have already stated. In the end, it's all about math.
I think Tau Cabalander has made some good points you could stick to, though I personally don't agree with all of them:

Tau Cabalander wrote:

* Research all ammo, scripts, probes, and cap charges to perfect ME, and 60 PE.

I would rather limit the research to those ammo/scripts etc. which do sell in amounts worth making them, but that depends on the region and requires some market research.

Tau Cabalander wrote:

* Ships and most everything else is good at ME 20 + PE 2, unless they are capitals.

Not into capital BPOs yet, but I agree with the statement on ships. With modules, on the other hand (which I assume you mean by everything else), I usually use a calculator to find out the ME level that suits me best.

Tau Cabalander wrote:

* BPO used to make BPC for invention do not require any research.

Unless it's a module BPO and you use the invented BPC to manufacture T2 items yourself. Then researching that BPO is most likely worth it.

Just my 2 cents...
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#12 - 2013-03-25 13:40:29 UTC
Selaria Unbertable wrote:


Tau Cabalander wrote:

* BPO used to make BPC for invention do not require any research.

Unless it's a module BPO and you use the invented BPC to manufacture T2 items yourself. Then researching that BPO is most likely worth it.

Just my 2 cents...


The stats of the BPC doesn't affect the invented BPC at all (except for number of runs)

One only reason for researching it, is if you also manufacture the T1 module for use in making the T2 module. And then only if the market price for the T1 module is high enough to make it worthwhile.

(The invented BPC will be -4 -4, regardless of the input. A decryptor can change it)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#13 - 2013-03-25 15:33:39 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Selaria Unbertable wrote:


Tau Cabalander wrote:

* BPO used to make BPC for invention do not require any research.

Unless it's a module BPO and you use the invented BPC to manufacture T2 items yourself. Then researching that BPO is most likely worth it.

Just my 2 cents...


The stats of the BPC doesn't affect the invented BPC at all (except for number of runs)

One only reason for researching it, is if you also manufacture the T1 module for use in making the T2 module. And then only if the market price for the T1 module is high enough to make it worthwhile.

(The invented BPC will be -4 -4, regardless of the input. A decryptor can change it)


Yes, that's what I meant. Should have made it more specific. Thanks.