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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Remember who we are

Author
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#41 - 2013-03-20 18:09:29 UTC
My compliments to Louvaki-haan and Mr. Raithe. You represent the best in us.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#42 - 2013-03-20 18:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Scherezad
(Double post)
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#43 - 2013-03-20 18:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Lialus Raithe wrote:

Quite so, as it is stated now. Please understand that at the time, we had no way of knowing or believing that though.


I do indeed, I merely wish for the same mistakes to not be repeated yet again.

Lialus Raithe wrote:

I sincerely apologize for what you and your daughter are enduring, I would not wish that upon anyone. The cry to annihilate the Caldari is not one of liberty nor is it one of freedom, it is a cry of hatred and nothing else. It is not a cry you will ever see me echoing.


Nor would I, and I appreciate your condolences. My heart goes out to those suffering injustices on Home. It's one of the reasons I sought to establish this Corporation; to attempt to ease that burden for both Gallente and Caldari.

Lialus Raithe wrote:

There are more willing to take it than you expect, however it must be initiated from both sides and so far that has yet to happen simultaneously. (There have been times with one side is willing and the other is not and supporters of peace on both sides). I understand it is difficult to believe given the usual drivel here on IGS, but I assure you the larger part of the Federation prefers a non-military resolution to this conflict.


Aye, it was admitably a an emotional response born of my own frustration. I should steady my mouth and realize that the vocal minority are usually great than the silent majority...however..things are set in motion that I cannot ignore. Where my faith was once a unerodable bolder for a peaceful solution it is now represented by a nugget.

Lialus Raithe wrote:

Your kindness in regards to my character is appreciated.

I apologize for assuming you were speaking to me, it seems I'm a bit on edge at the moment as I've been trying to take too many angles of discussion at once.


It is most understandable, and I have fallen into the same trap various times before.

Scherezad wrote:
My compliments to Louvaki-haan and Mr. Raithe. You represent the best in us.


Undeserved praise Scherezad-haani, but greatly honored by your words.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#44 - 2013-03-20 20:08:36 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
My compliments to Louvaki-haan and Mr. Raithe. You represent the best in us.


Such kindness is undeserved but appreciated.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#45 - 2013-03-20 22:30:17 UTC
Quinzel Nikulainen wrote:
Interesting read. Given the sentiments expressed here I must ask: do you have any comments to make regarding the status of your CEO and his recent GalNet activity?


I do.

"What my CEO or co-workers do in their spare time and what views they express is none of my concern."

Hans Nardieu wrote:
Mankind has grown strong in eternal struggles and it will only perish through eternal peace. Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice


Until you manage to bring anything more than narrow-minded hatred to any debate, you can feel free to be ignored like the uncivilized simpleton you behave like.

Halete wrote:
Oh my~.

So many fork-tongued Gallenteans around lately.

They push and they push, but do they realize that eventually they'll push and the Caldari won't bend... they'll break?

And then maybe when the State war machine wreaks havoc on your people, you'll crawl along on your front (for lack of arms or legs) and it'll dawn on you...

That you've become snakes.


The childish taunting of Angel-sympathizers are getting old Halate. Feel free to expect serious replies when you can bring yourself to contribute to a conversation in a civilized manner.

Thoun Gaterau wrote:

What a ridiculous, ill informed, and biased account of events.

You may want to see employment with "Gutter Press". I'm sure they'll be delighted to have a writer of your caliber on board.



Field Agent Gaterau.

You may wish to learn some professionalism before you speak up again, personal attacks are not becoming of someone who are second-in-command for an organization responsible for the security of trillions, especially not if you can't even bring about counter-arguments to match my claims.

I have made my report based on eye-witness accounts - after all it's not like you will share much with us, is there? How did the interrogation of the lucky 17 survivors of the SnipeHunt Massacre go? Shame you could not interrogate the remaining 261 possible survivors, or press charges against anyone of them.

But then again, that's not what you wanted, was it?

Remember Gaterau, when this war is over, your organization will be dissolved and if there are suspicions of miss-use of power, you will be investigated and if guilty, punished.

When this war is over, I will still have a job to go to. You on the other hand, may very well end up Field Agent of your own ten-by-ten cell for the rest of your life.

Aelisha wrote:
I was decrying the emergence of unstable and spurious tyranny, not the use of control mechanisms and social-valves such as directed opposition and adversarial foreign policy as a good social model...


Your opinion has been noted. As for the rest of your posts, if you wish to be taken a bit more seriously (by me at the least) I'd ask that your stabs at the Federation's existence be refined more, it could help if you bring some more explanation for your views to the table as opposed to the blind, predictable venom we keep getting from the usual suspects.

As an example, I don't particularly care for the State - you float your own boat and all that - but if pressed on any claims of negativity and criticism regarding the State that I make I can back up each and every one with at least some explanation for my views.

I would appreciate it if anyone who feels like heaping scorn on my nation at the least do the same.

Knoot Enderas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-03-20 22:31:16 UTC
Lialus Raithe wrote:
[Says the one who has made it a point to lash out at the Federation in nearly every conversation in recent history.

I honestly have little concern for what Msr. Enderas meant with his words and your interpretation of the activities of the Federation are as biased as you claim the Federation's viewpoints are. You persistently ignore the fact that "ultra-nationalism" is only one section of the Federation's political arena, just as the Praticals you support are only one section of the State's. Between the two of us, you have voiced more ultra-nationalism for the State than I have of the Federation, yet you continue to treat me with the same disdain you would treat any other while I have remained patient with you.


I would delight in seeing a peace with the Federation. The sad truth is that the doves not not appear to be in charge of Gallente FoPo right now.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-03-20 22:37:06 UTC
Well this is very interesting if worrying. It would appear I owe Mr Biko an apology.
Now let us all take a nice long hard look at ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves if we are ready for the stern task ahead. Are we ready for the firestorm that total war will bring down upon our heads?
Are our hearts hardened and our loins girded for what we must do to achieve victory?
Are our hands cold and our eyes blinkered to the reality of what we will end up doing to ourselves if we all continue to chest beat and howl like primates?
I pray temperance, or failing that, I pray you at least try and keep the collateral damage down.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.

BloodBird
The Crucible.
#48 - 2013-03-20 22:55:39 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Thoun Gaterau wrote:

What a ridiculous, ill informed, and biased account of events.

You may want to see employment with "Gutter Press". I'm sure they'll be delighted to have a writer of your caliber on board.



The description presented by BloodBird is rather accurate ,especially the part describing what happened with SnipeHunt, i say so because i was there. Black Eagles aren't perfect especially when commanded by a politician, person that has his own agenda.


This point is what Federal citizens and member-States themselves should keep in mind. We may need the SDII, but we need them to work as intended, and not be a single person's vehicle for personal aims.

We need to be able to trust our armed forces, especially in war-time, and currently the SDII is very good at losing that trust.

Knoot Enderas wrote:
The Federation should adopt the Ouroboros as its symbol. A serpent eating its own tail seems an altogether fitting metaphor for Federation politics.


Until you manage to bring anything more than narrow-minded hatred to any debate, you can feel free to be ignored like the uncivilized simpleton you behave like.

Lialus Raithe wrote:
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Since when did 'Freedom and Liberty' mean conquest of another nations Homeworld? If your concern is for you extradites dirt side then you should be preaching peace and championing caution. Eventually your going to beat the war drum so hard its going to crush your people below.


Msr. Louvaki,

You are one of the more reasonable persons that frequent these discussions from what I have read, do not let that slip now. Freedom and Liberty don't include the conquest of another nation's home world. However, the Federation is just as susceptible to mistakes and rash decisions as any other nation or group of people. Remember that Nouvelle Rouvenor was attacked without warning, killing half a million people at the outset of the first war between our people.

In retaliation, we bombarded Caldari Prime from orbit. Was it the most reasonable and justified response? No. It's easy to look back and say that. At the time, however, it was the response the Federation felt was necessary to prevent further attacks on itself and its citizens. This isn't me trying to justify the situation at hand, merely making a point that saying we engaged in conquest over your home world without considering the context is a move beneath you.

As for peace and caution, perhaps you've not been following me in the conversations that have been occurring (I wouldn't blame you, for who am I but another Federation apologist and a young, inexperienced one at that?) However, that's exactly when I've been doing. I have no desire to see this situation escalate further, I have no desire to see further bloodshed on either side of the field. I would suggest to you that I am not the one beating the war drum.


If you wish to argue with anyone regarding history, get it right.

"it was the response the Federation felt was necessary to prevent further attacks on itself and its citizens." Claiming that the whole nation supported the bombardment. An out-right lie.

The U-Nats in power at the time decided it would be a wonderful idea to bombard the planet for a whole day to force a surrender from the newly created State. Not only did it back-fire on them very hard and ensure that the event would be propagandized by the State for centuries after, not only did it ensure we will never hear the end of it, but it was also an act that, once news of it spread across the Union, disgusted the population. It was considered to be completely over-kill and uncalled for, and a number of member-States threatened to leave the Union as well, unless this was immediately dealt with.

As for being an apologist, Mr. Raithe, this Federation does not need more apologists, we have such people already, pandering to the view-points of the Caldari State without taking into account the views of their own nation and thus helping them propagate their arguments at the cost of any opposing viewpoints. This does not help anyone and creates more problems.

Please keep this in mind in your future dealings.

Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-03-20 23:42:02 UTC
BloodBird wrote:

"it was the response the Federation felt was necessary to prevent further attacks on itself and its citizens." Claiming that the whole nation supported the bombardment. An out-right lie.


My historical account was accurate though not as detailed as it should have been. You are correct in that one could assume the entire Federation supported it and it was not my intention to make such a suggestion.

Bloodbird wrote:
As for being an apologist, Mr. Raithe, this Federation does not need more apologists, we have such people already, pandering to the view-points of the Caldari State without taking into account the views of their own nation and thus helping them propagate their arguments at the cost of any opposing viewpoints. This does not help anyone and creates more problems.

Please keep this in mind in your future dealings.



Now this is where I must correct you, Msr. "Bloodbird." An apologist offers apologies, which are explanations and nothing more. The word has a positive and negative meaning. The negative meaning is to admit responsibility for and offer an expression of regret or guilt at a wrong, failing or other similar nature. The positive meaning is to offer an excuse, justification or explanation toward a specific event or belief, such as in regards to military or religious doctrine.

When I state that I am a Federal apologist, it is my declaration that my viewpoints and statements will be offered from a Federal-sympathetic position. Which is entirely evident through my dealings and will remain so for the future.

I appreciate your warnings and advice.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#50 - 2013-03-20 23:52:59 UTC
And I appreciate your clarification on your stance, pilot.
Knoot Enderas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-03-20 23:53:45 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
Knoot Enderas wrote:
The Federation should adopt the Ouroboros as its symbol. A serpent eating its own tail seems an altogether fitting metaphor for Federation politics.


Until you manage to bring anything more than narrow-minded hatred to any debate, you can feel free to be ignored like the uncivilized simpleton you behave like.


It's more than a bit silly that you'd call someone an uncivilised simpleton who is consumed by narrow-minded hate in an attempt to take the high ground, don't you think? My comment is on the nature of the self-mutilating Federal policies that you insist on defending.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#52 - 2013-03-21 00:03:56 UTC
Knoot Enderas wrote:
BloodBird wrote:
Knoot Enderas wrote:
The Federation should adopt the Ouroboros as its symbol. A serpent eating its own tail seems an altogether fitting metaphor for Federation politics.


Until you manage to bring anything more than narrow-minded hatred to any debate, you can feel free to be ignored like the uncivilized simpleton you behave like.


It's more than a bit silly that you'd call someone an uncivilised simpleton who is consumed by narrow-minded hate in an attempt to take the high ground, don't you think? My comment is on the nature of the self-mutilating Federal policies that you insist on defending.


From what I have seen of you there has been little good and much commenting on how little respect the Federation has in your mind. You have a history of constant negative commentary and little explanation for this and I am, frankly, tired of listening to this from so many sources, including but not limited, to yourself.

I don't need nor want any 'high ground' what I want is for people to share informed opinion for once, instead of so many simply sharing nothing but predictable scorn or heaping criticism and transparent hatred at their ideological opponents.

This very broadcast is a prime example. I share a message intended for the Federal population and fully expect scorn coming my way. I was not at all disappointed.

We are all capsuleers here and supposedly intelligent people. I don't think civilized behavior is to much to ask of my fellow post-humans on this summit, at all.
Knoot Enderas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-03-21 00:12:36 UTC
Considering how few posts I've made to the IGS, I'm surprised that I am already considered to have any sort of history of commentary at all.

More to the point, you're advocating war against my people and asserting your moral superiority over us. So how could you possibly be surprised, much less complaining that we take issue with it? The mind boggles.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#54 - 2013-03-21 00:22:32 UTC
Knoot Enderas wrote:
Considering how few posts I've made to the IGS, I'm surprised that I am already considered to have any sort of history of commentary at all.


A single post is all it take to have a 'history' of posting. It may not be long, but you will be judged by the contents as will everyone.

Knoot Enderas wrote:
More to the point, you're advocating war against my people and asserting your moral superiority over us. So how could you possibly be surprised, much less complaining that we take issue with it? The mind boggles.


I am?

Really?

I advocate that the Federal population remain aware of the realities of our war, the need to fight it, the need to fight it in an honorable manner that don't forsake our identity, and that they remain critical to the SDII and other groups, to ensure they don't step out of line without correction.

On top of this I have made mention of facts regarding our enemies. I would be really impressed if you manage to prove me wrong in my claims regarding the Federation's opponents, and if so I would correct my viewpoints accordingly.

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#55 - 2013-03-21 01:14:42 UTC
A most interesting and disturbing account of recent events. I had received vague information myself from another capsuleer about an upcoming SnipeHunt operation, but was detained outside my pod when it took place. In a way I feel fortunate not to have been faced with the thorny moral dilema you were forced to confront.

Clearly, the SDII continues to be necessary. Our enemies make it plain that we can not show weakness in the face of their aggression. Repeatedly they have cast aside opportunities to negotiate, opportunities that yet remain open to them, and instead insist on what amounts to outright submission. Even when it is demonstrated that Gallente Federation has the strength to resist their aggression and more, they take our restraint to wage total war as evidence that we can be intimidated.

However, this abuse of the universal rights of our citizens by the forces meant to protect us can not continue. There must be more robust oversight of the Black Eagles to insure that situations like this SnipeHunt fiasco are not repeated. As misguided as their actions may have been, I believe that they were motivated by love for our Federation. They should not have been shot down like dogs in the street.
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