Intergalactic Summit

It can, yes. It doesn't always.



Now hold on just a minute. "Liberal cultures require euthanising" is a bit extreme and is exactly the kind of heavy-handed tyranny you're decrying above. Yes, a focus on individual liberty can lead to some very dark roads but it's this very same quality that allows us to be counter-balances to one another and steer ourselves toward a brighter path. Don't let the verbosity of some extremes drown out the voice of reason.

The Federation is a conglomeration of multiple different ideals and philosophies, each of them constantly warring against one another and yet held in check by one another. The idea of the Senate is to allow these ideas to be weighed and to seek the will of the constituents so that the ideas held to be most desired by the people can be sought after while the more extreme viewpoints are cast aside.

I don't expect you to fully support the idea, but at least be honest in that the Federation, as a whole, has not embraced these extreme mindsets. If you're deadset on the idea that our culture needs to be euthanised, you can rest assured you'll be convincing more and more Federal citizens to take up arms and resist your own extremism.

The Caldari State is currently closer to tyranny than the Gallente Federation. I will agree that the Federation could breed such reactions (and has in the past).



The democratic process relies on conflict between ideals and need as well. The primary difference is the level of central control exerted by the government absent the will of its constituents, which I assume is what you are referring to by "control and stability." The Federal government structure does have emergency powers and other failsafes in place should the need arise for quick, decisive government action but these are temporary in nature.

If I understand correctly, your primary issue with democracy is just that. Control is levied to people groups and masses which are notoriously fickle rather than regulated by a central governing body that is likely to be more consistent?



I agree, we should take responsibility for our actions. It is not just social responsibility, however. While it is true that the government seeks the will of the people, it reserves for itself various levels of control and regulation that it can employ to avoid disaster (this is evident throughout our history). In the end, the government may be held accountable by the people for any breach of its purpose and authority but the presence of these systems of micro-control help us to avoid the type of irrational destruction you and I are both leery of.



Good to hear that you will not condone genocide, I apologize for assuming otherwise of you.

I would suggest that looking inward to the State would be prudent for you, however. The State's original composition, as I understand it, operates a a corporate oligarchy where ideals can be tempered against one another and weighed for their worth. (I think you define this as merit, forgive me if I am mistaken). However, the current operation of the State absolves this and instead allows for the singular rule of one party's ideas and authority. Can we both agree that this should be dealt with first, which would likely help to alleviate the current situation?

Heh, you should see what else these people do.

Mr Raithe, would that I could interfere in the affairs of the CEP, but such is far beyond my remit. We as Caldari capsuleers have been expressing our concerns, but all we can do (and we do) is police our own to attempt to keep some form of party line in circulation. Even then, the diversity is pretty bewildering.

As for 'first' dealing with X or Y, there is no reason as to why this must be a sequential process. The crystalisation of democracy into a stable, conservative norm; or the destruction of a system that is not able to converge on a solution beneficial to its neighbours is an on going process that is far larger than you or I, as much as I do enjoy this discussion. Bloodbird has even been so good as to provide examples of how unstable elements of the Federation are being given license to kill citizens "against the conventions and charter of that Federation". The evidence is there to see that the Federation is birthing a monstrous form to perpetuate itself, instead of recognising that constitutional editing and restrictions would stabilise and militarise their population 'safely'. Look to Andreus Ixiris' latest revelations and postulations to that effect - he wholly advocates this move to outright aggression on the basis of opposition, not adversarial principles (such as those at play around the Caldari Prime issue).

Some may state that logically, instability in the Federation should be something I applaud, but it is my hope that others can derive that a system advocating individuality, individual sustainability and individual capacity is going to have some pretty radical elements survive an over turning of the current order. The Federation doesn't worry me, the Federation of tomorrow or the day after, should Hans, Blaque or Thoun have their hand on the tiller is what terrifies me.

As for the troubles at home, megacorporate society will long outlast any one individual who may currently reside at the top. The Executors activities and promises are currently under heavy scrutiny, despite solid support from central authorities, and I do not consider it my place to comment on such. However, I have every faith that the State is durable enough that any disruption to central elements will only force us to rely on our patron corporations through hard times, more so than we otherwise would. As capsuleers? Our interface with the State is low, but as ever, i am sure we will benefit our corporations in a manner we choose and they may choose to accept. The formation of an unstable, self destructive and genocidal society is not nearly as easy to see on the horizon.

The Federation should adopt the Ouroboros as its symbol. A serpent eating its own tail seems an altogether fitting metaphor for Federation politics.

My impression is that Mr Enderas is being slightly more literal, where the Federation keeps on biting itself and wondering why it hurts so much. Oh it must be those people over there. Yes they are the cause of all of our problems. All the while consuming the choicest parts of itself to fuel a futile march against a foe they demonise with eat self-mutilating bite.

The only renewed thing about the Federation since the introduction of the capsule, is the wave of ultra-nationalism and hypocrisy. Those two particular beasts are reinventing themselves furiously as of late.

~smiles~ No no it was the other one.

Now's not the time to be infighting. We must remain united before the enemy. Too many good men and women have spilled blood for our freedom and liberty, we shame the memory of these heroes with displays such as these.

Once Caldari Prime returns to us and the Federation is whole once more than by all means go for each other's throats.

Msr. Louvaki,

You are one of the more reasonable persons that frequent these discussions from what I have read, do not let that slip now. Freedom and Liberty don't include the conquest of another nation's home world. However, the Federation is just as susceptible to mistakes and rash decisions as any other nation or group of people. Remember that Nouvelle Rouvenor was attacked without warning, killing half a million people at the outset of the first war between our people.

In retaliation, we bombarded Caldari Prime from orbit. Was it the most reasonable and justified response? No. It's easy to look back and say that. At the time, however, it was the response the Federation felt was necessary to prevent further attacks on itself and its citizens. This isn't me trying to justify the situation at hand, merely making a point that saying we engaged in conquest over your home world without considering the context is a move beneath you.

As for peace and caution, perhaps you've not been following me in the conversations that have been occurring (I wouldn't blame you, for who am I but another Federation apologist and a young, inexperienced one at that?) However, that's exactly when I've been doing. I have no desire to see this situation escalate further, I have no desire to see further bloodshed on either side of the field. I would suggest to you that I am not the one beating the war drum.

Quite so, as it is stated now. Please understand that at the time, we had no way of knowing or believing that though.



I sincerely apologize for what you and your daughter are enduring, I would not wish that upon anyone. The cry to annihilate the Caldari is not one of liberty nor is it one of freedom, it is a cry of hatred and nothing else. It is not a cry you will ever see me echoing.



There are more willing to take it than you expect, however it must be initiated from both sides and so far that has yet to happen simultaneously. (There have been times with one side is willing and the other is not and supporters of peace on both sides). I understand it is difficult to believe given the usual drivel here on IGS, but I assure you the larger part of the Federation prefers a non-military resolution to this conflict.



Your kindness in regards to my character is appreciated.

I apologize for assuming you were speaking to me, it seems I'm a bit on edge at the moment as I've been trying to take too many angles of discussion at once.