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Anti-Ganker Barge Fits.

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Dave Stark
#121 - 2013-04-15 18:35:04 UTC
Random Woman wrote:
Kinda Suprised nobody posted the Mining Rokh here :)


why are you surprised nobody posted a ship that mines 3/4 of a t1 mining ship?
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#122 - 2013-04-15 19:38:14 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Random Woman wrote:
Kinda Suprised nobody posted the Mining Rokh here :)


why are you surprised nobody posted a ship that mines 3/4 of a t1 mining ship?

True,
But a Rokh is more practical that some of the other fits posted here.
Dave Stark
#123 - 2013-04-15 21:46:36 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Random Woman wrote:
Kinda Suprised nobody posted the Mining Rokh here :)


why are you surprised nobody posted a ship that mines 3/4 of a t1 mining ship?

True,
But a Rokh is more practical that some of the other fits posted here.


if it mines ~3/4 of a procurer or skiff.

why would any one even consider a rokh?
TheAmazingFlyingPig
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2013-04-16 00:14:04 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Random Woman wrote:
Kinda Suprised nobody posted the Mining Rokh here :)


why are you surprised nobody posted a ship that mines 3/4 of a t1 mining ship?

True,
But a Rokh is more practical that some of the other fits posted here.


if it mines ~3/4 of a procurer or skiff.

why would any one even consider a rokh?


You forget; this thread isn't about max yield, this thread is about keeping your ship (for some reason).

Grab a Retriever, 2 Modulated Strip Miner 2's, fill lows with upgrades, and go about your day. You'll mine much faster and be able to get yourself into a new ship much easier should the one you're in goes pop.

The worst thing a miner can do for his survivability is throw on more mods that make recouping the losses on the gank ship easier. If the guy wants you dead, you're gonna die. Stop fitting expensive mods onto your untankable ships, get a pile of tech 1's, and go nuts.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#125 - 2013-04-16 01:26:35 UTC
Random Woman wrote:
Kinda Suprised nobody posted the Mining Rokh here :)

[Rokh, mining]

Use MDCM II for max mining, but be prepared to stagger them and blow your wrist out:

[Rokh, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
Medium C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets

Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I


Hammerhead II x5
Dave Stark
#126 - 2013-04-16 07:03:42 UTC
TheAmazingFlyingPig wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Random Woman wrote:
Kinda Suprised nobody posted the Mining Rokh here :)


why are you surprised nobody posted a ship that mines 3/4 of a t1 mining ship?

True,
But a Rokh is more practical that some of the other fits posted here.


if it mines ~3/4 of a procurer or skiff.

why would any one even consider a rokh?


You forget; this thread isn't about max yield, this thread is about keeping your ship (for some reason).

Grab a Retriever, 2 Modulated Strip Miner 2's, fill lows with upgrades, and go about your day. You'll mine much faster and be able to get yourself into a new ship much easier should the one you're in goes pop.

The worst thing a miner can do for his survivability is throw on more mods that make recouping the losses on the gank ship easier. If the guy wants you dead, you're gonna die. Stop fitting expensive mods onto your untankable ships, get a pile of tech 1's, and go nuts.


i didn't forget anything.

why would you mine in a ship with 3/4 of the yield of a skiff or a procurer which already has more than sufficient tank.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#127 - 2013-04-16 17:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Dave Stark
#128 - 2013-04-16 17:14:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Yields is as much as a hulk with T2 harvester upgrades

you've gone from bad fits, to lies.

in short, it mines less, and has less tank than a skiff.
and probably costs more.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#129 - 2013-04-16 17:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Dave Stark wrote:


i didn't forget anything.

why would you mine in a ship with 3/4 of the yield of a skiff or a procurer which already has more than sufficient tank.

Very True,
A skiff can tank as well as a Rokh. Even if the Rokh could mine as much, it has a tiny cargo hold which would still put the skiff at an advantage.

All the mining ships are much different than they used to be. Not long ago the Osprey could out mine the procurer, Now the procurer out mines the old retriever. Not to mention the old mining cruisers have lost their mining bonus.

The new procurer is not that far below the yield of a HULK. In fact the HULK only really out shines the others for yield with max skills. There is a much bigger difference between a HULK at exhumers 1 and a Hulk at exhumers 5 than there is between all 3 exhumers at exhumers 1. Before the change the base yield of the covetor was 3 times the base yield of the procurer. Now the base yield is the same, with only skill based bonuses and MLU's setting them apart. The retriever can fit 3 MLU's giving it only a slight advantage yield wise over the procurer. its big advantage is the large ore hold. While the covetor can only fit two MLU's but gets a per level bonus to yield making it slightly better than the retriever for yield. but only if you have the mining barge skill trained high enough to out perform the extra MLU. At mining barge 2 the retriever will out mine the covetor.

Halada's Miners guide was finally outdated with the mining ship changes. Time for someone to update that 6 year old guide.
Dave Stark
#130 - 2013-04-16 18:02:08 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


i didn't forget anything.

why would you mine in a ship with 3/4 of the yield of a skiff or a procurer which already has more than sufficient tank.

Very True,
A skiff can tank as well as a Rokh. Even if the Rokh could mine as much, it has a tiny cargo hold which would still put the skiff at an advantage.

All the mining ships are much different than they used to be. Not long ago the Osprey could out mine the procurer, Now the procurer out mines the old retriever. Not to mention the old mining cruisers have lost their mining bonus.

The new procurer is not that far below the yield of a HULK. In fact the HULK only really out shines the others for yield with max skills. There is a much bigger difference between a HULK at exhumers 1 and a Hulk at exhumers 5 than there is between all 3 exhumers at exhumers 1. Before the change the base yield of the covetor was 3 times the base yield of the procurer. Now the base yield is the same, with only skill based bonuses and MLU's setting them apart. The retriever can fit 3 MLU's giving it only a slight advantage yield wise over the procurer. its big advantage is the large ore hold. While the covetor can only fit two MLU's but gets a per level bonus to yield making it slightly better than the retriever for yield. but only if you have the mining barge skill trained high enough to out perform the extra MLU. At mining barge 2 the retriever will out mine the covetor.

Halada's Miners guide was finally outdated with the mining ship changes. Time for someone to update that 6 year old guide.


the procurer mines 25% less than the hulk, that's a pretty big gap.

at the moment my issues with the exhumers is that the hulk and mack's tank should be swapped, that's been proven several times (mack had the worst of no stats, hulk has worst of 2 stats), on top of that, the hulk's yield bonus isn't anywhere near significant enough to make up for the fact it has the worst of 2 stats, and finally that the barges are far too close to exhumers in terms of yield to the point where the optimal way to mine is to isk tank a retriever.

while i applaud CCP's efforts with the mining ships, it's clear that they haven't got a clue what they're doing with such ships.

i'd be tempted to have a go at updating halada's mining guide, i know i can do the maths, but it's having the inclination. although i'm not sure if he'd appreciate me coming along and fiddling with his masterpiece.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#131 - 2013-04-17 02:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Dave Stark
#132 - 2013-04-17 06:02:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Yields is as much as a hulk with T2 harvester upgrades

you've gone from bad fits, to lies.

in short, it mines less, and has less tank than a skiff.
and probably costs more.


You have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Which makes sense. Nothing you've said this entire thread has been helpful, truthful, or useful. No wonder you have so many likes, people love others they feel superior too.

No wonder you hate me. Stupid forum trolls. Now keep my thread open with another useless bump, and hurry it up, it's all your good for.

oh the irony of you saying that. basic maths proves you wrong. it has nothing to do with me being a troll or not.

i actually have so many likes because people agree with the truth, which is hardly surprising at all. i don't hate you, i pity you because you clearly don't know any better. i seek only to educate you, especially when your education seems to be lacking basic maths. that's not a personal attack, that's a simple fact proven by your own posts.

let's make it really simple.
if we do the maths on the maelstrom fit (except i'll use t2 miners because they mine more)
you have 8 t2 miners, and max skills, and let's throw in a 3% implant because we can.
that's 80*8*(1.25^2)*(1.09^3)*1.05*1.03 = 1050.43 per min.
now let's see what a hulk with similar skills and implants can get...
360*(1.25^2)*(1.15^2)*1.75*(1.09^2)*1.03 = 1593 per strip. (3 strips, 3 min cycles, so per strip is also the same as per min)

so let's look at the facts.
you stated that your maelstrom fit (that has worse mining lasers than my example) has as much yield as a hulk with t2 harvester upgrades.
your shitfit, with tech 2 mining lasers, yields just over 1k per min.
the hulk fit you claim it equals, yields just over 1.5k per min.
that means the hulk mines more than 50% more than your fail fit.

now, upon seeing the facts. remind me, which of us knows nothing? (and please, re read this post before answering that)
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2013-04-17 07:28:41 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Teh veldstorm is the bestest mining ship evah!

You fail at basic maths and eft (and life).

You're a meanie doodoo-head

(maths and stuff)


So I checked the math but Dave Stark is indeed correct. On every level the mining maelstrom is fail and aids when compared to a hulk.

I did find an oddity however. If you take the mining maelstrom, put in a +5% mining implant into slot 7 and slot 10, add in a perfect orca booster + mindlink, the maelstrom will mine 14 m3 more than a tech 2 fitted hulk with no implants or booster. WE BROKE THE CODE PEOPLE!!

But yeah, my numbers show the maelstrom at 833 m3 as listed, a tech II fitted yield hulk is 1547 m3, and for comparison purposes a tech II fitted yield skiff is 1228 m3.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#134 - 2013-04-17 15:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Dave Stark
#135 - 2013-04-17 15:44:45 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
I love men.


Good Boy. Now post another one.


you can't even fake a quote properly can you?
no wonder you didn't even get 200 endorsements for CSM.

can't add up.
can't use a forum.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#136 - 2013-04-17 15:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
So your going to misquote me and not even respond.

I knew it. Look, i'm not going to argue with an idiot, it will just drag me down to its level and try to beat me with experience.

Now be a good child and run along
Haulie Berry
#137 - 2013-04-17 16:00:27 UTC
Gallamoth Sickle alt detected?
Dave Stark
#138 - 2013-04-17 16:04:52 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
So your going to misquote me and not even respond.

I knew it. Look, i'm not going to argue with an idiot, it will just drag me down to its level and try to beat me with experience.

Now be a good child and run along
of course i'm going to misquote you, so you know how it's done for next time.
what is there to respond to? you posted a falsehood, i called you a liar and proved it so, then you ignored the fact.

we're not having an argument, you're just systematically embarrassing yourself. i didn't need to sink to your level, i let my maths make you look like the idiot it proved you to be.

Haulie Berry wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle alt detected?
probably.
Dave Stark
#139 - 2013-04-17 16:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Quote:
now, upon seeing the facts. remind me, which of us knows nothing? (and please, re read this post before answering that)


Since you obviously suck at math, heres something simple that even you can understand. This is taking from the fact that I actually have orca boosts, an implant, and such methods of increasing yield.

1x Cu Vapor Particle Bore Stream I gives 125.71 mining amount in 41.10 seconds vs a Modulated Strip Miner II which gives 1,016 mining amount in 123.30s

Now, stupid, if you multiply the 8 lasers times 125.71 per laser it actually turns out to be 3017.04 mining amount in the same amount of time as the strip miner, here, since your simple:

Cu Vapor Particle Bore Stream: 125.71 m3 x 8 lasers = 1005.68 in 41.10 seconds.
Modulated Strip Miner II: 1016.41 m3 x 3 lasers = 3,049.23 in 123.30 seconds

Now, hers the part where your simple, tard:

Since the modulated strip miner takes 123.30s to complete 1 cycle and the Cu Vapor takes 41.10 to complete a cycle, then in 123.30s the Cu Vapor actually falls just short of the strip miner yield by 32 ore per 123.30s.

So in actuality, you are not only as dumb as you appear, but worse, and to top it off you cannot do math correct, and it turns out you actually don't know as much as I do, but hey, who cares right? It's only a sign of your generation and those to come.


So you see. Anyway you cut it, rather you used the maelstrom with implants or the hulk with implants, or both without, they are still going to fall within the same margin. Just shut up.


orca bonuses are percentage based. therefore have no impact upon which mines more.
also, the modulated strip miner II's cycle time with orca bonuses is 121.78 seconds, not the 123.3 you claim.
you're off to a bad start.

a cu vapor particle bore stream does mine 125.71m3 with an orca bonus of 15% yield. and 8 of them do mine 1005.685m3 per cycle.
consider the following; a mackinaw with the same bonuses mines 1585.493m3 of ore in the same time.
so considering a mackinaw mines more than your shitfit, how do you expect your shitfit to rival a hulk's yield?

edit: hang on, you did remember to load some mining crystals when you got your calculator out, didn't you?
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#140 - 2013-04-17 16:52:45 UTC
i'm unsure if Simo Haya is completely deluded, or just a masterfull troll.

A normal troll would have probably let go after 7 page of being proven wrong, but he's still there.
He may actually be the real deal.


On subject, you can get a retriever fitted for soemthing like 40 millions, and mine it back in a few hours. Best way to go. If you don't want to get ganked get a Skiff, fit T2 defense and nobody will annoy you, but goodbye a good chunks of the profits.

I sell drones and drones accessories.