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Anti-Ganker Barge Fits.

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Aldrex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-03-20 23:31:24 UTC
No Covetor build?
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#22 - 2013-03-20 23:34:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-03-21 00:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
Aldrex wrote:
No Covetor build?


Covetors are useless in their current incarnation because they pop like cherries on prom night.

A coveter is more expensive and more flimsy than a retriever, plus it has a comparably tiny ore hold. You don't get much additional yield out of it until you get mining barge 5 and use both lows for yield. I have some serious reservations about the hulk as well, but I can't think of any situation where I would want to mine in a coveter instead of a retriever or procurer.

edit: if you don't have a dedicated hauler you're never going to get more yield out of a coveter than a retriever once you factor in haul time.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#24 - 2013-03-21 00:12:49 UTC
ITT: An avatar with a very punchable face tries to get noobs to field billion isk mining ships

ITT: Noobs can't field billion isk mining ships

ITT: Therefore the world refused to change
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#25 - 2013-03-21 00:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#26 - 2013-03-21 00:51:20 UTC
High resistances account for the vast majority of damage reduction. IE. If a ganker does 1000 kinetic damage in his first volly and you have 86% Kinetic resistance, like I do, then it reduces his damage to 140 per volley and with a contingent of medium shield maintenance drones being used, from another barge near by, it almost completely neutralizes his damage.
Namdor
#27 - 2013-03-21 01:23:43 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
ITT: An avatar with a very punchable face tries to get noobs to field billion isk mining ships

ITT: Noobs can't field billion isk mining ships

ITT: Therefore the world refused to change


Frankly, any barge without an Estamel's invuln is just asking for it.
Powers Sa
#28 - 2013-03-21 02:54:56 UTC
That will not stop us.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-03-21 03:14:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
High resistances account for the vast majority of damage reduction. IE. If a ganker does 1000 kinetic damage in his first volly and you have 86% Kinetic resistance, like I do, then it reduces his damage to 140 per volley and with a contingent of medium shield maintenance drones being used, from another barge near by, it almost completely neutralizes his damage.

I don't think you really 'get' eve.

Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
I'm not here to make any points or explain myself. As such, I will not.

This thread is about fits, that is all. You will either fit them and see the value in it, or you won't and will continue to be targeted.

If you submit a fit, great. If you don't, thats good too. Either way. The thread is for fits, no correspondence. I won't respond to anything short of a real question.

Criticism, without a better idea, will be met with silent response.

Fly Safe.

Or how to communicate with people.


Anyways, here's the tankiest mackinaw I could come up with.

Quote:
[Mackinaw, Dumb As All Hell]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Elara Mining Laser Upgrade
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


Hornet EC-300 x5
Mining Drone II x5


Here's the fit in PYFA with an all 5s character. It has 75.7k ehp. http://i.imgur.com/UIQJcuW.jpg

A basic Meta-3 and lower Catalyst fit that I have will do 824/volley with antimatter. As luck would have it, this pro-fit (heh) mack is tanked against antimatter! I can get off 12 volleys in a 0.5, meaning I will do 9888 EHP worth of damage before concord gets me.

75,700 EHP / 9888 damage = 7.65 catalysts. This billion isk tanked mackinaw will die to 8 catalysts (with some inexpensive implants). Obviously if you're in a higher sec system then more dudes/better ships are needed.



What I'm trying to get at here, is that your advice kind of sucks. Fitting a tank is fine and good, but don't think that is going to stop anyone who actually knows what they're doing. (me)

e: I found out a way to squeeze 220k EHP against antimatter into a super juicy 1.35b skiff. I'd kill that on principal.

Ersahi Kir wrote:
I would also never put an expensive modules on my ship. By expensive I mean more than you're standard 4.5m modulated strip miner II, a 4.5m shield rig, or any other module worth more than 1.5m or so. I would especially never put a 20m+ module on a ship that can drop, because I would never want to hand significant isk to a ganker if they do manage to gank me.

20m is hardly significant isk. Mining is a terrible way to make money.
Haulie Berry
#30 - 2013-03-21 04:02:36 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
High resistances account for the vast majority of damage reduction. IE. If a ganker does 1000 kinetic damage in his first volly and you have 86% Kinetic resistance, like I do, then it reduces his damage to 140 per volley and with a contingent of medium shield maintenance drones being used, from another barge near by, it almost completely neutralizes his damage.


You are failing, through either ignorance or obstinance, to consider the numbers that actually matter.

How much money do you have to add to your fit to achieve that tank?

How much money do I have to add to my gank to kill that tank?

If you add 400 million worth of tank to a fit, and I only have to add 10 million to a gank to kill that fit, you've done yourself a very expensive disservice. Why would I ever bother ganking a T2 fit retriever when I can (still very cheaply) kill a billion isk mack?
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#31 - 2013-03-21 04:35:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-03-21 04:52:14 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
[quote=Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha]20m is hardly significant isk. Mining is a terrible way to make money.


20m isn't a lot of money, but it's too much for a module when many people will try to gank you simply for undocking in a barge. You can also have a fully fit procurer for 30m, so there's really no need to fit a 20m shield module when a 1m teck II will fit just fine.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-03-21 13:53:19 UTC
Here's a cheap Procurer fit I like. Cap Stable. No Implants. Just a good safe Miner. Remember, enven though you are in a barge, don't AFK and still orbitSmile

[Procurer, Tanked Strip Proc]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Medium Shield Booster II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Salvage Drone I x1
Hobgoblin I x1
Hobgoblin I x1
Hobgoblin I x1
Hobgoblin I x1

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#34 - 2013-03-21 15:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Everything I suggest is, of course, completely optional. The T2 riggings are recommended because the extra 10% to shields, I do not consider marginal. However, My goal here is not to simply recommend tough barges, but barges that are an investment in the sense that they may never have to be replaced. My ultimate goal, is to never lose a barge in the first place.

Several of the options, especially for mackinaws, can withstand up to 8 catalysts with T2 gear attacking simultaneously in a 0.5 system. That, to me, is worth the T2 riggings. But it is a matter of preference. I do not write my barges off, and ever allow them to be destroyed by a ganker if there is a single way I can prevent it.

I don't give them the pleasure of victimizing my barge, but we all see things differently, so it only matters how much you care, how far you push your barge.

I get where you are coming from here, but you are missing one key point. Gankers are not just for profit, many do it to pad there kill boards. For kill board padding to work all that is needed is the value of the ships lost in the gank needs to be less than the value of the ganked ship. By using T2 rigs or DED mods the value of the mining ship skyrockets. A gank catayst can be bought and fit for only a few mil. If your mining ship is worth over 200 mil but can be killed by a group of cataysts that collectively only cost 100M you WILL be a gank target for kill board padding.

Keep in mind that a 10M isk catayst can do about 10k damage before concord shows up. Anything 12-15k ehp will be safe from a single catayst, but if your ship value is high enough to warrant 2 catayst gank ships any thing over about 25M) you now need well over 20k ehp to avoid being ganked for kill board padding. This is why exhummers are ganked so much more than mining barges, an exhumer is worth well over 200M, and no matter how well tanked it is it will not survive a group of 8-10 10M cataysts.

The best way to tank a mining barge is to keep it cheap. If you can hit 15,000-20,000 ehp and keep the overall value below 20 mil they will not be able to use your ship to pad their kill boards. sure you are not ungankable, but it will cost more in ganking ships then what your ship is worth. i.e. if they do gank you they still lose as the value killed to value lost stats on their kill board go down.

my version of a mackinaw fit for tank without making it overly valuable( not profitable to gank) looks something like this. but can still be ganked for kill board padding.

Highs
2 x T2 strips with T2 crystals

Mids
F-S9 medium extender
invulnerability field II
EM ward field II
limited thermic dissipation field

Lows
DC II
reinforced bulkheads II
micro Auxiliary power II

rigs
medium field extender I
medium processor overclocking unit I

over 34k ehp resists 79%/81%/73%/78% without any over priced modules.

4 catysts could possibly kill it and pad their kill board, but they will not be able to gank you for profit.

For a more yield friendly MACK set up try;


Highs
2 x T2 strips with T2 crystals

Mids
upgraded EM ward amp
limited adaptive invulnerability field
limited kinetic deflection field
limited thermic dissipation field

Lows
DC II
Aoede mining laser upgrade
mining laser upgrade II

rigs
medium field extender I
medium processor overclocking unit I

I got a 5% CPU implant for this to work but it gives over 26K ehp with 68%/80%/85%/76% resists, very good against catysts and only sacrifices 1 MLU from max yield, fitting 2 Aoede mining laser upgrades drops the CPU required a bit while maintaining the 2 x 9% boost from 2 MLU's, but the MLU II is cheaper. This set up is very hard to gank for profit.

it will still take at least 3 catysts to kill it but will still be unprofitable for them, while getting near max yield.(only 1 MLU lost)

You can easily hit 19-20K ehp with a retriever if you are not worried about yield.

Something like this;

Highs
2 x T2 strips with T2 crystals

Mids
adaptive invulnerability field II

Lows
DC II
reinforced bulkheads II
reinforced bulkheads II
mining laser upgrade II

rigs
2 x medium field extender I
anti thermal screen reinforcer I

19k ehp(over 20k ehp if you fit a hull hp implant) and not worth ganking.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-03-21 15:10:10 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Procurer

High Power
1x Modulated/Ice Strip Miner II/Ice Harvester II

Medium Power
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Thermic Dissapation Amplifier II
1x EM Ward Amplifier II
1x Medium Shield Extender II

Low Power
1x Damage Control II
1x Mining/ice Laser upgrade

Rig Slot
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I/II
1 Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I/II

Do not confine yourself to ridging fitting, be imaginative and inventive, Mix and match and apply your new fits to your other barges to see increase in performance.

Edit ---Zainou 'Gypsy' Electionic EE-604 (4% bonus to the CPU output.)---


A +80M ISK implant to 'protect' a +6 M ISK ship!!!

Fail.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-03-21 15:18:35 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Retriever

High Power
2x Ice/ore harvesters.

Medium Power
1x Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction.

Low Power
1x Damage Control II
1x Ice/ore Harvester Upgrade I
1x Micro Auxililary Power Core I

Rig Slot
1x Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
1x Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
1x Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Feel free to upgrade to T2 if you are ready and interested in any of the following fits.
A Retriever without a scanner and no Mining Laser Upgrade II?

The Retriever is a throw away ship. At 30M ISK it can be paid for in 2-3 hours of mining. Fitting it the way you suggest is a poor business decision. Risk vs reward.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#37 - 2013-03-21 15:53:13 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
A Retriever without a scanner and no Mining Laser Upgrade II?

The Retriever is a throw away ship. At 30M ISK it can be paid for in 2-3 hours of mining. Fitting it the way you suggest is a poor business decision. Risk vs reward.

Very valid point,

Even though this thread seemed to be about tanky fits, everyone should keep in mind that a 20-30M retriever can be easily replaced as you mentioned. In fact the difference in yield between a max tank and max yield fit. A max yield unboosted retriever can make at best about 12 mil per hour, while a max tanked retriever will only make at best about 9 mil per hour. So even though the ship can pay for it self in 2-3 hours, the extra yield alone from a max yield ship will pay for the ship after only 8-10 hours.

This means if you go more than 10 hours without getting ganked you have made about 120M as apposed to only 90 mil in the tanked ship. So if you get ganked once every 10 hours with the max yield ship, and never get ganked with the max tanked ship over all profits will be the same. If the max yield ships gets ganked less than once every 10 hours it will still make more isk. Of course these numbers change if you are ice mining as you will have trouble making more than 8 mil per hour no matter what you set up when mining ice.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#38 - 2013-03-21 16:08:01 UTC

At this point, I'd suggest just ignoring the OP, since he can't be asked to discuss his fits. He can't be asked to explain himself, and is set in his ways....

Here are the fits I'd recommend.... I'm more than willing to discuss any/all of them, as well as my reasoning. A couple common attributes:
a.) A survey scanner: Just locking a roid and mining it until it's empty is highly inefficient... A survey scanner is important to improve proficiency.

b.) Mining Laser Upgrades: While Tank is important, so is productivity.... Pro LvL 4 Mission fits include damage upgrades, just like pro miner fits include MLU's....

c.) An attempt to balance Tank vs Yield: If you completely focus on yield, you leave yourself open to easy ganking. If you completely focus on tank... your not as efficient as you could be. In truth, when you mine in active suicide ganking systems you should be more cautious... and if you mine in hidden, seldom visited systems, you can throw caution to the wind... Tweak your fits accordingly!

d.) Survival... If you are being chased by zombies, you don't have to outrun the zombies... you only need outrun the sucker next to you! These tanks are not gank proof (such a thing doesn't exist), but generally have enough EHP to make you a less attractive target. A T2 fit dessie does about 10-12k damage before concord shows up.... so if you have 40+k EHP, they need to bring 4 to suicide gank you, and more in 0.6 systems (of if they don't bring t2). It takes a decent amount of effort to pull that off, and while some may do it, most wont (unless you get their attention).

e.) Utilize Fleet Bonuses: Always join a fleet to get bonuses... A skilled squad leader can improve your mining yield by 10%, increase your shields by 10%, and increase your armor by 10%.... If you are lucky, someone may bring out Warfare linked ships that do marvelous things to your tank and/or yield.

f.) Learn to overheat: When you get attacked, overheat your hardeners... It adds a significant amount of EHP to your ship, and can be the difference between life and death... If you aren't paying attention to your miner's screen... then set your audio alert to let you know if shield drop below 90ish%, and immediately switch to your client and OH when you hear it, as it's probably caused by suicide gankers.

g.) Use EC-300s: EC drones are the bane of many PvP'ers... as they are decently effective at jamming ships. ECM, in general, is the bane of suicide gankers, because a successful jam neutralizes their ships until concord shows up... If you can use them, they are an excellent surprise to use. It's always quick to abandon any drones you have out in space, then release the EC's and immediately send them at the attacker... When you survive, you can always reconnect to lost drones to reclaim your abandoned drones.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#39 - 2013-03-21 16:18:45 UTC
Fits:
[Procurer, Standard]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I

Mining Drone II x5

Stats: 47+k EHP, 1086 (1460) yield, 12k ore hold.
Explanation: With 47k EHP, you rarely need more tank. Use the extra fitting to improve yield...

[Retriever, Standard]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Mining Drone II x5

Stats: 16+k EHP, 1086 (1398) yield, 22k ore hold.
Explanation: With <17k EHP, it takes a wet noodle to destroy you... I highly recommend the DCU over 3x MLU's, because without it, a single cheap-fit catalyst is certain to make a profit nuking you for the strip miners.

[Covetor, Standard]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Mining Drone II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Stats: ~12k EHP, 1196 (1508) yield, 7k ore hold.
Explanation: With <12k EHP, it takes a soggy wet noodle to destroy you... I highly recommend the DCU over 2x MLU's, because without it, a single cheap-fit catalyst is certain to easily make a profit nuking you for the strip miners.
Notes: This is meant to be a fleet ship... If you get attacked, everyone in fleet should abandon their mining drones and immediately send EC drones after their attackers...

[Skiff, Standard]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Mining Drone II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Stats: 80+k EHP, 1140 (1453) yield, 15k ore hold.
Explanation: This has a monstrous tank, such that only highly determined gankers will bother with you...

[Mackinaw, Standard]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hornet EC-300 x5
Mining Drone II x5

Stats: 39+k EHP, 1046 (1359) yield, 32k ore hold.
Explanation: This is a tough ship to balance... Everyone wants to AFK with it, and Everyone wants max yield. As such, it's quite the tasty target. I recommend this balance between tank and yield because it requires just enough attackers that they will probably pickon easier targets.

[Hulk, MiddleGround2]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Survey Scanner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hornet EC-300 x5
Mining Drone II x5

Stats: 25+k EHP, 1318 (1630) yield, 8.5k ore hold.
Explanation: This is a tough ship to balance... Everyone wants max yield. The truth is, this tank is pretty mediocre.. and that makes it easy prey... However, it's enough of a tank that you'll survive 1-2 volleys of a tornado, and it will survive long enough for support to help you. When using hulks, especially in a "dangerous area", it's a good idea to have someone in a jamming ship along with the fleet.... If you have an orca along side, don't release attack drones, and instead just dock your hulk into the Ship Hangar of the Orca... that's the surest way to save it!
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#40 - 2013-03-21 16:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.