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Anti-Ganker Barge Fits.

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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#241 - 2013-08-20 15:54:32 UTC
Sosueme Hapytuedispt wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Sosueme Hapytuedispt wrote:
But can someone explain to me why there is such exaggerated claims to all of them being sh*t fits?


You should treat barge fitting as you would treat PvP fitting, because it's been proven time and time again that people will engage miners in non-consensual PvP (ganking).

With that in mind you shouldn't fit anything to a barge if you wouldn't fit to a throw away PvP ship. So to pick at his post:

1. He keeps using the canyon shield extender
2. He often mentions tech II rigs in his suggested fits (they're still expensive, but when this thread was made they were outrageously expensive)
3. He requires faction mods, specifically the canyon shield extender, and expensive implants to make his fits work

Quote:
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1 (Boosts perception by 3, Provides +1.5% powergrid bonus, Provides +1.5% capacitor amount bonus, Implant set bonus: 50%. (Also great for tengu's, battleships, any ship really.)

Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2 (Boost intelligence by 3, Provides +1.5% CPU bonus, Provides +1.5% capacitor recharge
Implant set bonus: 50%. (Also great for tengu's, battleships, any ship really.)

Zainou 'Gypsy' Electionic EE-604 (4% bonus to the CPU output.)

The Mackinaw fit below, dubbed 'Perfect Mackinaw' requires a 'Squire' Engineering EG-606, for the Harvester upgrade. I woulden't reccomend it, but for those craving perfection in a barge, it is the only way.


So the ultimate problem is that he can EFT warrior away like anyone else, but he makes very bad cost/benefit analyses. Simply getting the largest EHP numbers in EFT doesn't make it a good fit, the fit needs to have good marginal cost benefit or else it's gankbait.


I have difficulty understanding the overemphasized exaggeration of his barges containing faction or deadspace.

3/18, that's three out of the first 18 of his fits on the first page alone contain a medium 'canyon' shield, the other 15 are actually really good tanks in my opinion. I can't see anything so expensive or unreasonable with them, that it would raise an eyebrow to anyone. But that is never even brought up. However, I did see 1 in this entire thread that could be considered over the top. And that was his 'Best Mack you will ever own' I woulden't go that far, however, he did. It would be an impressive ship, but I don't think deadspace belongs on a barge, but no one understands what optional means apparently, where you can actually scan down the list until you find one that is affordable and suitable for your needs and the cost is suitable, which is most of them.

The implants are not expensive. A mack cost anywhere from 180 to 200mil just for the ship, if you afford that, then making and buying 2 implants at 20 to 25mil each is childs play, furthermore, they not only benefit the barge but any combat ship (any ship at all) that a pilot flys because it augments their perception, intelligence, capcitor, powergrid, and cpu with a bonus if the set is complete, that isen't a waste of money, it helps performance and efficiency for all ships a pilot owns and can make for much tighter fits on all other ships.

A large majority of the fits in this thread do not require those implants, the first 3 fits in the first post do not require implants. Citing 'the perfect mackinaw' as a reason why the entire thread is invalid is autistic. However, once again, this thread was constructed like a menu at a restaurant, you can pick what you want and don't have to order the most expensive thing possible. Only a fool would do that when they can't afford it and only a fool woulden't be able to pick one of similar defense and less value. I like them all, but I picked one that was inexpensive and able to take on a 7 catalyst gank team with T2 gear, the only thing that is garbage, is what i'm being told that they don't work, don't protect anyone against that many, and to just stay in a procuror. The answer is no.

Quote:
1. He keeps using the canyon shield extender
2. He often mentions tech II rigs in his suggested fits (they're still expensive, but when this thread was made they were outrageously expensive)
3. He requires faction mods, specifically the canyon shield extender, and expensive implants to make his fits work


1.) No, he doesen't he used it a hand full of times on a fraction of the fits.
2.) He often mentions T2 rigs as a choice, not a requirement.
3.) No, he doesen't require them, only on certain fits, which you can choose off the menu. See above for implants.

tl:dr? Read more.


He edited his fits: His original set of "suggested fits" ALL used the Canyon Shield Extender. He didn't have disclaimers on which rigs to use, and he required the Genulution implants and usually a 5% fitting implant.

This thread came off as a "I help miners by giving them good fits, give me your CSM vote". He didn't seem to understand the cost benefit of his fits; He didn't understand effective HP. He didn't take criticism well. I support giving miners excellent fits to pick from, but I also think you should be able to explain why they are good fits, too. This way people learn from your fit, and understand the principles behind them.

Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#242 - 2013-08-20 16:10:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Arkie Velectjarra
Doomheim
#243 - 2013-08-20 16:15:55 UTC
Quote:
thanks to the kind folk in Nakugard's old Fleet.


It was truely wonderful working with you Simo, thank you for all the help.

Great work on the thread btw. Blink
Sosueme Hapytuedispt
Doomheim
#244 - 2013-08-20 16:19:10 UTC
Yes, good job and thank you again.

I hope you come back to Nakugard someday.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#245 - 2013-08-20 16:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Quote:
He edited his fits: His original set of "suggested fits" ALL used the Canyon Shield Extender. He didn't have disclaimers on which rigs to use, and he required the Genulution implants and usually a 5% fitting implant.


We discovered more as we went along. They are all available now, thanks to the kind folk in Nakugard's old Fleet.


You've been cleaning up the thread, adding information, refining fits, and turning out some improved fits. That is a good thing, and if you were more humble I would support your thread. However, you also have gems like this:

Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
I'm not here to make any points or explain myself. As such, I will not.

This thread is about fits, that is all. You will either fit them and see the value in it, or you won't and will continue to be targeted.

If you submit a fit, great. If you don't, thats good too. Either way. The thread is for fits, no correspondence. I won't respond to anything short of a real question.

Criticism, without a better idea, will be met with silent response.

.........and .........

I don't justify myself to anyone who doesen't contribute, degridates what is presented, and feeds misinformation. Oh yeah, and it isen't required for me to do anything for anyone thinking they are entitled to such things, so I don't..


I posted examples for you to follow: Fits, with explanations on the fitting choices. We had legitimate complaints about your suggested fits, which you shrugged off with a "I know what is best" demeaner. Glad you changed them, I hope you are learning, and I hope you pass on good information to others.

Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
Quote:
He didn't understand effective HP.


Yes, I do. Resistances are the most important part of the ship. You've already had it explained to you.


Based on your "All of my fits can tank 8 t2 catalysts" comment, your "don't forget to include resistances" comment, and given Sasha's incorrect statemen that "EHP" = Estimated hit points that don't include resistances (which I attribute to you, even if unfairly), I'm certain you didn't understand EHP until we explained it to you. EHP = effective hit points, and does include resistances. I'm happy this thread has helped inform you, too. That way incorrect information isn't passed on to innocents like Sasha.
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Vigilante Carebears
#246 - 2013-08-20 17:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha
Edited.
Sosueme Hapytuedispt
Doomheim
#247 - 2013-08-20 17:34:17 UTC
"and if you were more humble I would like your fits."

Ugh What in the hell does that have to do with using a fitting for a barge?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#248 - 2013-08-20 17:38:14 UTC
Grand Admiral Simo-Hayha wrote:
I do know what is best. I added, not changed fits. I knew everything I need to know prior to you posting anything, it's how I wrote the book on barge fittings.

Quote:
Based on your "All of my fits can tank 8 t2 catalysts" comment, your "don't forget to include resistances" comment, and given Sasha's incorrect statemen that "EHP" = Estimated hit points that don't include resistances (which I attribute to you, even if unfairly), I'm certain you didn't understand EHP until we explained it to you. EHP = effective hit points, and does include resistances. I'm happy this thread has helped inform you, too. That way incorrect information isn't passed on to innocents like Sasha.


I simply do not care what you think.

Goodbye.


Enough said...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#249 - 2013-08-20 17:43:40 UTC
Sosueme Hapytuedispt wrote:
"and if you were more humble I would like your fits."

Ugh What in the hell does that have to do with using a fitting for a barge?


I complemented him on refining the fits.

However, I mistyped / miscommunicated that last bit. I was essentially trying to say I'd support his thread if he had a better demeanor.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2013-08-20 17:52:06 UTC
Sosueme Hapytuedispt wrote:
1.) No, he doesen't he used it a hand full of times on a fraction of the fits.
2.) He often mentions T2 rigs as a choice, not a requirement.
3.) No, he doesen't require them, only on certain fits, which you can choose off the menu. See above for implants.

tl:dr? Read more.


1. His fits changed
2. Suggesting them as a choice is silly, as they are bad choices from a cost/benefit perspective.
3. His fits changed

And honestly, if you're using all your lows in a mack to fit tank you may as well get a retriever and cheap fit it for yield. The amount of money that you pull in will be greater, and you will easily be able to replace your ship at least 4 times over for the cost of a tanked mack.

But you know that's a cost/benefit analysis, which is apparently not welcome in this thread. And I may as well throw down that miner gankers would much rather have a mack kill mail than a cheap fit retriever kill mail, even if the retriever is easier to gank.

For the record I have always been a big fan of using the skiff over the mack for high sec fleet mining. I am an orca pilot, and once the mack uses a single low to fit a damage control the skiff makes it look ********. A damage control + 2 yield low mack will have equal yield to a 2 yield low skiff, but the skiff will have twice the EHP. The smaller cargo hold isn't a factor because you're dumping ore in the orca anyway.

But again that's a benefit analysis, when the point of this thread is apparently sperg posting 18 eft warrior herp-a-derp mack fits.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#251 - 2013-08-20 17:56:35 UTC
Sasha Rama wrote:
Commodore Quaritch wrote:
this thread should now be locked.

It no longer holds relavent conversation or contributions.


Alt of Gizzum, Bugsy, or Lady Newbqueen?


I'll claim Sasha Rama as my alt... That way I'm a switch hitter that causes damage from both sides. I mean, Sasha's post really exposed major gaps in Simo-Cryha's knowledge!

Bugsy, who do you want to claim as an alt?

and Lady newbqueen, that's a pretty awesome nickname!

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#252 - 2013-08-20 17:59:06 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
... knowledgable contribution to the thread... .


On another note, would you like a nickname and an alt too?
Sosueme Hapytuedispt
Doomheim
#253 - 2013-08-20 18:32:24 UTC
Wow.

Mackinaw - Cheap and Tough.

EHP: 29,855
Shields: 6,142
Shield Resistances: 67/76/82/76
Armor Resistances: 66/45/36/23
Hull Resistances: 58/58/58/58

High Power
2x Ice/ore Harvesters II

Medium Power
1x Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
1x Thermic Dissipation Amplifier I
1x Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1x Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I

Low Power
2x Ice harvester upgrades
1x Internal Force field Array

Rig Slot
1x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I/II
1x Medium Anti-Em screen Reinforcer I/II

Too expensive?
Sosueme Hapytuedispt
Doomheim
#254 - 2013-08-20 18:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sosueme Hapytuedispt
I kinda like the fact everyone can use this one, I use tanks.

EHP: 41,645
Shields: 5,670
Shield Resistances: 82/83/80/84
Armor resistances: 77/64/58/49
Hull Resistances: 60/60/60/60

High Power
2x Modulated Strip miner II/Ice Harvesters II

Medium Power
1x Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
1x EM Ward Field II

Low Power
1x Damage Control II
1x 'Refuge' Adaptive Nano plating I
1x Prototype Energize adaptive Nano Membrane I

No idea why no one ever brings these up.
Arkie Velectjarra
Doomheim
#255 - 2013-08-20 18:36:32 UTC
I was new when I started using this one and it actually manage to stop two gankers from killing me and popping my pop.

High Power
2x Ice/ore harvesters.

Medium Power
1x Medium Shield Extender II or 1xMedium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction.

Low Power
1x Damage Control II
1x Ice/ore Harvester Upgrade I
1x Micro Auxililary Power Core I

Rig Slot
1x Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
1x Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
1x Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Thanks again Simo!
Sasha Rama
Doomheim
#256 - 2013-08-20 18:43:53 UTC
I switched to a higher grade and lower cost barge

Mackinaw

EHP: 36,621
Shields: 8,282
Shield Resistances: 71/77/83/67
Armor resistances: 66/45/36/23
Hull Resistances: 58/58/58/58

High Power
2x Ice Harvesters

Medium Power
1x Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1x Kinetic Deflection Field II
1x Thermic Dissipation Field II
1x EM Ward Field II

Low Power
2x Power Diagnostic System II
1x Internal Force Field Array

Rig Slot
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Works great for me and put down 5 catalysts.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#257 - 2013-08-20 18:45:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
Sosueme Hapytuedispt wrote:
I kinda like the fact everyone can use this one.

EHP: 41,645
Shields: 5,670
Shield Resistances: 82/83/80/84
Armor resistances: 77/64/58/49
Hull Resistances: 60/60/60/60

High Power
2x Modulated Strip miner II/Ice Harvesters II

Medium Power
1x Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
1x EM Ward Field II

Low Power
1x Damage Control II
1x 'Refuge' Adaptive Nano plating I
1x Prototype Energize adaptive Nano Membrane I

No idea why no one ever brings these up.


1. Because Macks don't have 5 mids
2. Dual buffer tanking a exhumer falls squarely into herp-a-derp territory. Honestly we have the triple threat buffer tank here, huzzah
3. A 3 yield low slot mack will mine 23% more than this fit with exhumer 5 while costing a fraction as much (that fraction being in the range of 1/4 to 1/5)

If you think this is a good fit you are bad at this game.

/edit - I'll use the name that people on TS/mumble use regardless: Er-rashy
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#258 - 2013-08-20 18:49:50 UTC
Sosueme Hapytuedispt wrote:

No idea why no one ever brings these up.


Because that would require us to reread his edited posts.
Sosueme Hapytuedispt
Doomheim
#259 - 2013-08-20 19:22:11 UTC
Quote:
I kinda like the fact everyone can use this one, I use tanks.


What part of that don't you understand?
Sasha Rama
Doomheim
#260 - 2013-08-20 19:24:00 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Sasha Rama wrote:
Commodore Quaritch wrote:
this thread should now be locked.

It no longer holds relavent conversation or contributions.


Alt of Gizzum, Bugsy, or Lady Newbqueen?


I'll claim Sasha Rama as my alt... That way I'm a switch hitter that causes damage from both sides. I mean, Sasha's post really exposed major gaps in Simo-Cryha's knowledge!

Bugsy, who do you want to claim as an alt?

and Lady newbqueen, that's a pretty awesome nickname!



I am an alt of Gizznit Malikite and I support this thread and endourse all of Simo's fits. Twisted