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All The Ships

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Whitehound
#61 - 2013-03-20 09:53:04 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
... they only get loaded onto the card when rendering is done.

So you will probably agree that there is already a lot of techniques in place to minimize the hardware requirements of a game.

How do you stand on the whole racing stripes issue where some want to have all available textures unlocked and made visible wile ignoring the consequences this will have for players with older hardware? You think it is a good idea to put an extra splash of colour onto it all? Or better wait and only unlock it with added game content like new ship attributes and roles so it is less of a superficial feature?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-03-20 10:19:30 UTC
look it's whitehound being horrible and offtopic IdeaArrowStraight
Ayame Tao
#63 - 2013-03-20 11:14:13 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
... they only get loaded onto the card when rendering is done.

So you will probably agree that there is already a lot of techniques in place to minimize the hardware requirements of a game.

How do you stand on the whole racing stripes issue where some want to have all available textures unlocked and made visible wile ignoring the consequences this will have for players with older hardware? You think it is a good idea to put an extra splash of colour onto it all? Or better wait and only unlock it with added game content like new ship attributes and roles so it is less of a superficial feature?


the consequences this will have for players with older hardware?

What?

There will be zero consequences for people on older harder. None. Zip. Nada.

If a system can run EVE now, it can run EVE with extra ship textures.

We've answered this question.
Whitehound
#64 - 2013-03-20 11:17:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Ayame Tao wrote:
If a system can run EVE now, it can run EVE with extra ship textures.

No. Like others have already said will these extra textures need to be loaded onto the graphics card for when they are needed and so add to the hardware demand.

Might well be that the current requirements have enough "head room" for a little more, but it stays a bad idea.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Ayame Tao
#65 - 2013-03-20 12:30:46 UTC
If people have systems that are so crap that they are brought to their knees by textures, then good! I don't want these peasants polluting gaming and stifling improvement and innovation because their 486 based Windows 98 box can't run it any more.

I will bet you large sums of money that you lose more players by having graphics that look like they did 10 years ago than by excluding people whose calculators have better performance than their PCs.
Whitehound
#66 - 2013-03-20 12:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Ayame Tao wrote:
I will bet you large sums of money that you lose more players by having graphics that look like they did 10 years ago than by excluding people whose calculators have better performance than their PCs.

Players like to use their old PCs for their 2nd and 3rd accounts. It is not unusual. CCP has always lost a small number of players each time they increased the shader requirements for example and once had this cut off all Linux users. You get to see threads about it when it happens.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-03-20 13:02:33 UTC
Ayame Tao wrote:
If people have systems that are so crap that they are brought to their knees by textures, then good! I don't want these peasants polluting gaming and stifling improvement and innovation because their 486 based Windows 98 box can't run it any more.

I will bet you large sums of money that you lose more players by having graphics that look like they did 10 years ago than by excluding people whose calculators have better performance than their PCs.

You talk to a wall. He counters sense and logic with talking bull,
just so keep feeding him more.

His point is not to be right, but to **** people off.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#68 - 2013-03-20 13:06:40 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
You shot your own argument of saving resources down when you proclaimed your desire to want entirely different models of ships rather than just a reskinned version. ...

It is just you who shots himself in the head. You still do not get it.

The game will always advance and therefore always increase its requirements. It has not stood still and it will hopefully never do. You only decide wisely with each step what you will need to additional resources for.

It is as simple as that. I do not think you will ever get it.



I told you I won't get what you are saying because its all nonsense, you may as well be telling me make believe stories while you are at it. Once again I see you are avoiding any and all valid points being brought to you by virtually everyone in the thread now, and yet you still insist on being rightfully wrong. Even the company has proven you wrong by introducing over a hundred variations of ships since launch.

When somebody calls you a horse...

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Whitehound
#69 - 2013-03-20 13:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Even the company has proven you wrong by introducing over a hundred variations of ships since launch.

They are only on your disk and this is what this thread is about. People have found them in the files, but there are many that are not in the game as active content.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#70 - 2013-03-20 13:45:46 UTC
Basically Whitehound doesn't understand how something works but still argues about it.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-03-20 14:00:23 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Basically Whitehound doesn't understand how something works but still argues about it.

this is not news
Whitehound
#72 - 2013-03-20 14:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Basically Whitehound doesn't understand how something works but still argues about it.

Now you are only trolling like the rest. You said yourself:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
... they only get loaded onto the card when rendering is done.

What is then so difficult to understand that when you load more and more textures from your disk onto the graphics card then it will require additional video memory?

I think you understand it quite well. I can only guess why you are so upset, and, frankly I do not care.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#73 - 2013-03-20 14:02:47 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Even the company has proven you wrong by introducing over a hundred variations of ships since launch.

They are only on your disk and this is what this thread is about. People have found them in the files, but there are many that are not in the game as active content.


Well since you have the memory of a goldfish I will reiterate myself. When this game was created it had Frigates, a few cruisers, and a couple of indy's. When I created my first character people were mining in destroyers, rokhs, and haulers because mining barges weren't introduced then.

In that time we have been introduced to battleships, interceptors, dics, heavy dics, covert ops, ORE, Capitals, super capitals, EW, black ops, Battlecruisers, Command ships, Marauders, Assault, heavy assault, logistics, Navy faction, pirate faction, crossbreeds, T3's, new shuttles, and salvaging ships. I don't recall any mass exodus of players because they couldn't handle the introduction of all those ships.

And we haven't even mentioned the npc platforms yet.

If you want to discuss what the thread was about, then discuss it. What other ships in those files would you like to see in game? Don't spend 4 pages making yourself look bad because you are trying to discuss something completely irrelevant and non consequential that you have no knowledge of.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Whitehound
#74 - 2013-03-20 14:08:07 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Well since you have the memory of a goldfish I will reiterate myself. When this game was created it had Frigates, a few cruisers, and a couple of indy's. When I created my first character people were mining in destroyers, rokhs, and haulers because mining barges weren't introduced then.

In that time we have been introduced to battleships, interceptors, dics, heavy dics, covert ops, ORE, Capitals, super capitals, EW, black ops, Battlecruisers, Command ships, Marauders, Assault, heavy assault, logistics, Navy faction, pirate faction, crossbreeds, T3's, new shuttles, and salvaging ships. I don't recall any mass exodus of players because they couldn't handle the introduction of all those ships.

And we haven't even mentioned the npc platforms yet.

If you want to discuss what the thread was about, then discuss it. What other ships in those files would you like to see in game? Don't spend 4 pages making yourself look bad because you are trying to discuss something completely irrelevant and non consequential that you have no knowledge of.

So? You are not telling me anything new.

I am still only talking about how it increases the hardware requirements. You just seem to try to save your arse from your initial fail comment of "Wut?". Whatever, I do not care for it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#75 - 2013-03-20 14:11:04 UTC
Alright. Question: If there are 5 ships with the same texture to be rendered, will the card load the texture once or five times?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#76 - 2013-03-20 14:15:30 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Well since you have the memory of a goldfish I will reiterate myself. When this game was created it had Frigates, a few cruisers, and a couple of indy's. When I created my first character people were mining in destroyers, rokhs, and haulers because mining barges weren't introduced then.

In that time we have been introduced to battleships, interceptors, dics, heavy dics, covert ops, ORE, Capitals, super capitals, EW, black ops, Battlecruisers, Command ships, Marauders, Assault, heavy assault, logistics, Navy faction, pirate faction, crossbreeds, T3's, new shuttles, and salvaging ships. I don't recall any mass exodus of players because they couldn't handle the introduction of all those ships.

And we haven't even mentioned the npc platforms yet.

If you want to discuss what the thread was about, then discuss it. What other ships in those files would you like to see in game? Don't spend 4 pages making yourself look bad because you are trying to discuss something completely irrelevant and non consequential that you have no knowledge of.

So? You are not telling me anything new.

I am still only talking about how it increases the hardware requirements. You just seem to try to save your arse from your initial fail comment of "Wut?". Whatever, I do not care for it.



Right, like I said you have no knowledge about what you are talking about.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Whitehound
#77 - 2013-03-20 14:17:34 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Alright. Question: If there are 5 ships with the same texture to be rendered, will the card load the texture once or five times?

It loads it once, keeps it in an off-screen video memory segment and accesses it for each ship it renders with every frame.

If there are 5 ships with 5 different textures then it loads each of the 5 textures, stores each of them in an off-screen video memory segment and accesses it for each ship it renders with every frame.

The first variation needs less memory for textures than the second variation.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#78 - 2013-03-20 14:44:33 UTC
Graphics issues have long imposed certain limitations on what could be done with ship variety in game, this is true.

However the goal, which I believe is "for the most part" realized, has been to incorporate the graphics differently to remove those bottlenecks on video resources.

In simplistic terms lets say you have 20 different Megathron hull color schemes. Instead of needing to load 20 different textures if all variations were present in a battle, you only need load one because one of the layers present on the ships has a variable color palate. The palate is already available to your graphics card, and the single set of textures is already loaded, the only variable is the code indicating the color and effects applied to each section of each ship.

This is gleaned from various dev blogs on the subject I have poured over the last few years, and if my understanding was imperfect or full implimentation isn't in game yet I apologize, and invite a correction from the dev team.

I have a feeling the long over due dev blog from the art team is going to touch on these matters.

I also would not be surprised if FanFest revealed information directly relating to all of these new skins, in light of the 10th anniversary coming up... but that is pure speculation.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Whitehound
#79 - 2013-03-20 15:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Ranger 1 wrote:
In simplistic terms lets say you have 20 different Megathron hull color schemes. Instead of needing to load 20 different textures if all variations were present in a battle, you only need load one because one of the layers present on the ships has a variable color palate. The palate is already available to your graphics card, and the single set of textures is already loaded, the only variable is the code indicating the color and effects applied to each section of each ship.

You make this a bit too simple as if a texture was now only a 3-byte word containing a single RGB value and each new skin would now only require a couple of extra bytes. CCP is not going to reduce the hardware requirements of their game...

Just by looking at images of the extra models are these skins more complex than just a single change in colour, but are complex textures and possibly have variable shader effects, too. What CCP is doing is to optimize old methods, like replacing direct mapping with indirect mapping, to make room for newer and more significant methods and to achieve as much distinction with each model as currently possible.

I am pretty certain CCP will keep pushing the limits like every other game maker, maybe only not as extreme as the makers of 3D single player games do, and each new skin will add to the memory requirement.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#80 - 2013-03-20 20:16:17 UTC
This thread has degenerated into a series of trolls and personal attacks. Therefore this topic is being locked.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL