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Warfare & Tactics

 
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FW changes that NEED to happen now
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Shahai Shintaro
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-03-19 20:31:02 UTC
1) disagree. Cloaking has a place inside plexes. I have been in a bait ship while cloaked arazu and the like we're sitting inside with me. What has no place inside a plex is a warp stab. These should be disabled by the same thing that prevents you to warping to someone inside a plex.

2)agree, except if the system is stable. Running up plex timers should be a viable tactic

3) disagree, they have enough ehp and Regen.

4)partially agree. I could see an initial message, but no more than that
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-03-19 20:32:52 UTC
Khol Baron Rova wrote:
Im going to agree with Yog....

Just joined FW a few days ago as a precursor to our corp joining. This alt has about 3mil sp. I spent three hours yesterday just bouncing around complexes raking in LP. I was stabbed and no one could catch me. They warp in... I warp out... then come back later and still cash in. Pitiful style of play and completely exploitable. This is supposed to be a war, not a game of catch me if you can (but you can't so quit trying).

This really needs to change for offensive plexing. Rats should lock you and point you in small plexes and up (20k range). All plexes should shoot neutrals entering (its a warzone right?). Maybe put a few sentry's in the larger plexes as well. Turn on analyzers or codebreakers to flip the complex so you have to sit at 5k or less. Give the bunkers non-public timers. These are supposed to be military grade complexes for goodness sake. You get insta-popped by NPC's in HS if you turn on the wrong friggin module but in FW they surrender to an unfit frigate that never fires a shot. Seriously?


So you joined FW, had loads of opportunities for fights, kept running away from them, and you're blaming the system for this?
And why should I have to compromise my pvp fit to put in an analyzer or codebreaker?
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-03-19 20:38:51 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
My only contribution to this would be to suggest that ONLY FW members (of any side) can enter a plex. Not in FW? You can't enter. If your only way to get a noob frigate kill is to sit waiting inside a plex in your shiny deadspace-fit Hookbill, you're doing it wrong.


As I've said before, this denies both FW members and pirates an excellent source of pewpew.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-03-19 21:23:47 UTC
1. Faction warfare needs to end.

It's been going on for five goddamn years, people. Enough is enough. Wars need to have an end, or there's no meaning to them whatsoever.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Takanuro
Eve Faction Trade Exchange
#45 - 2013-03-19 21:45:52 UTC
There are lots of changes that could be done, many have been suggest last year when it was a hot topic on several occassions. One of the things I still can't understand though is why they still give FW so much damn LP.

I mean why does Tier 4 have to give 450% more LP then T1??????????? Who needs 1-2mil LP a day to fund PVP?????????

Back before Retribution I suggested the following (IIRC)

T1 = -5%
T2 = Base
T3 = +5%
T4= +10%
T5= +15%

Same applied to missions, I mean why do L4 missions at T4 need to give something like 85K LP?????????

It's totally insane. Have more subtle bonuses would at least help create a little bit of Faction loyalty and less motive for PVE gangs to keep changing side, because as it stands now losing factions start to bleed players rapidly as pilots go where the LP is, not great for creating a good PVP machine, it makes recruitment very hard and all of this detracts from the purpose of FW, which CCP says is PVP.

I too would like to see some action taken on 'Plexville Eve Edition'. The more we PVP should not mean the faster we lose the war!



Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
Mabego Tetrimon
Spiritus Draconis
#46 - 2013-03-19 22:01:43 UTC
i like the system as it is, wonderfull for small fights with inexpensive ships, and also nice isk to be made ....so nothing wrong for me here. I think if you want other aspects, go to 0.0
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#47 - 2013-03-19 22:09:48 UTC
Only agree with the roll back timers.

What we absolutely need obviously is more structure grinding - Oh yes, that's what I want! /sarcasm/
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#48 - 2013-03-19 22:19:54 UTC
Takanuro wrote:
There are lots of changes that could be done, many have been suggest last year when it was a hot topic on several occassions. One of the things I still can't understand though is why they still give FW so much damn LP.

I mean why does Tier 4 have to give 450% more LP then T1??????????? Who needs 1-2mil LP a day to fund PVP?????????

Back before Retribution I suggested the following (IIRC)

T1 = -5%
T2 = Base
T3 = +5%
T4= +10%
T5= +15%

Same applied to missions, I mean why do L4 missions at T4 need to give something like 85K LP?????????

It's totally insane. Have more subtle bonuses would at least help create a little bit of Faction loyalty and less motive for PVE gangs to keep changing side, because as it stands now losing factions start to bleed players rapidly as pilots go where the LP is, not great for creating a good PVP machine, it makes recruitment very hard and all of this detracts from the purpose of FW, which CCP says is PVP.

I too would like to see some action taken on 'Plexville Eve Edition'. The more we PVP should not mean the faster we lose the war!






Large amounts of LP are not bad - they reduce the total amount of inflation on the economy.
Yogsoloth
Call of Cuthulu
#49 - 2013-03-19 22:38:38 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Only agree with the roll back timers.

What we absolutely need obviously is more structure grinding - Oh yes, that's what I want! /sarcasm/


The bigger the force you bring the bigger the fight and the less time you spend grinding structures.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-03-19 23:47:09 UTC
The Tiers offer an incentive to drag yourself out of T1 or push yourself into T3, to offset the increased difficulty of defending your systems.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#51 - 2013-03-20 00:01:16 UTC
Yogsoloth wrote:
Flipping systems is terribly easy which is the reason you see the same systems pass back and forth on a regular basis. Home systems are different, but again the problem is not with the 3-4 home systems each faction controls.



It's easyer (but still requires an over time focused effort) if are not home systems or strategic systems. And is fine so: if nobody live there and nobody care or put any effort to defend why should be "hard"?

Again: this is a null sec mindset "I set my flag there so then I don't need to live, work daily, check or use the system to hold my sov". This null sec sov model sucks balls, is for botters, do not promote anything (as we see) and nobody wants it. FW sov model is far superior; I dunno where your idea of null sec pvp as "end game" come ffrom, I'm sure the majority of FW/low sec players consider it brainless.

If single FW systems (again, check the stats on dotlan or in game) has more daily kills than whole null sec regions this proves somethinmg.
T RAYRAY
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-03-20 02:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: T RAYRAY
spitballing an idea for eliminating the soul-destroying absurdity of cloaky alt farmers in plexes:

Change to the plex mechanics that restricts cloak ACTIVATION within R + 20km (where R is the radius from the button that runs down the timer), but does not restrict the use of a cloak WITHIN R if it's already activated.

Legitimate cloak users:
So for those who want to set up cloaky traps within the plex, warp in, burn out to R+20km, cloak, and get into position anywhere in the plex. But, once you uncloak, you can't recloak unless you're back out to R+20km

Alt Farmer Isk-Whore users:
You turds need to stay within R to run down the button uncloaked, so every time someone shows up on short scan, start burning out to R+20km to cloak up and hide. When they leave, you can uncloak and get back into R to run down the button again.


My hopeful result, the mechanic is improved because it's more annoying for the farmers and doesn't limit the legitimate uses of cloaks in plexes.

Also, ban WCS from plexes --- what a great recipe!!!!
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#53 - 2013-03-20 04:52:55 UTC
T RAYRAY wrote:
Also, ban WCS from plexes --- what a great recipe!!!!



I can fully get behind this. I'm also for taking it a step further, remove the module from the game :)
Owena Owoked
Dedicated Individuals Committed to Killing
#54 - 2013-03-20 04:55:59 UTC
I agree that all of the OP changes need to happen now, because they will make it so much easier for me to farm. Thumbs up, go state.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-03-20 06:22:24 UTC
OP, the farmers who don't want to PVP, will not PVP even if you pass all those changes you suggest. And not all pilots who run plexes are "farmers". Many of them know when they're outmatched when looking at d-scan and warp out rather than flush their ISK down the drain. If you survive a superior enemy, you've won.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#56 - 2013-03-20 06:58:25 UTC
chatgris wrote:
T RAYRAY wrote:
Also, ban WCS from plexes --- what a great recipe!!!!



I can fully get behind this. I'm also for taking it a step further, remove the module from the game :)



I wouldn't mind if it worked on industrial ships only.
Would leave people able to get their stuff in to low sec without resorting to jump freighters for small loads.






https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#57 - 2013-03-20 07:36:40 UTC
Shahai Shintaro wrote:
1) disagree. Cloaking has a place inside plexes. I have been in a bait ship while cloaked arazu and the like we're sitting inside with me. What has no place inside a plex is a warp stab. These should be disabled by the same thing that prevents you to warping to someone inside a plex.

2)agree, except if the system is stable. Running up plex timers should be a viable tactic

3) disagree, they have enough ehp and Regen.

4)partially agree. I could see an initial message, but no more than that


From what i can see of his idea you could still cloak inside the plex, just not inside range of the beacon.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#58 - 2013-03-20 14:01:05 UTC
chatgris wrote:
T RAYRAY wrote:
Also, ban WCS from plexes --- what a great recipe!!!!



I can fully get behind this. I'm also for taking it a step further, remove the module from the game :)


Not in favor.

I occassionally use them to get past gaytcamps and station camps.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#59 - 2013-03-20 14:22:19 UTC
Yogsoloth wrote:
FW is reverting back to a cesspool of ...

'Reverting' indicates that another state existed before (you'd have to go back to before LP-for-everything was introduced) .. just sayin' Smile
Yogsoloth wrote:
1) Beacons inside of complexes should have an anti-cloaking mechanism.

Accomplishes nothing. Instead of cloaking they'll just relocate to alternate plex. The fix lies in the spawn and timer mechanics, reset spawns (and increase them!) and start timer counting back to zero whenever a plex is vacated (includes cloaking).
Yogsoloth wrote:
3) Bunkers need to have considerably more HP.

Their purpose through the last two HP increases was to foster big fights, something that has never happened .. ever! Logic dictates that increasing HP further also does not accomplish this task .. replace it with a 1-4 hr (perhaps dependent on hostile adjacent systems?) period in which system has to be 'protected' and plexes fought for
Yogsoloth wrote:
4) Bunkers need to ...

be put out their misery as does all EHP grinds .. they are tear/boredom inducing blob magnets, most fights are over the right to bore oneself whittling them down.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-03-20 15:31:23 UTC
heh I love these threats.

- Don't cloak in plexes
- Don't allow stabs.
- don't allow navy and pirate frigates in minor pexes.

instead of going deal with the situation one after the other comes complaining about one tactic or the other.

If you want straight pvp go to red vs blue.

yeah there are farmers, so what low sec is busier than ever.

and if you want to do something about farming, remove arming not every mod that can be used to avoid a direct confrontation wich is a vallid tactic to be used in many ways aside from plex farming.

attack the cause not the means.

Though I'd leave it before the LP farming you could count the systems with more than 3 persons in it on one hand, see how much pvp is let then.