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Luminaire situation still unstable, revered Caldari Admiral called back into service
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Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#81 - 2013-03-19 18:22:56 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
First, Miss Scherezad. It almost seems like your veterans are forced to think they are worthless in old age. I rather think after a lifetime of service it should be rewarded and the government should give back just a bit to make it so he wasn't suicidal due to feeling unwanted not disease. The way you described it with his sharp mind it seemed like overly flowered mental depression validated by the state.


We do not force our grandparents to think anything. Aten was a happy man who loved his daughter and grandson. He spent a great deal of his time at the creche, reading to the younger children; he also helped the custodians from time to time. He lived surrounded by those he loved and those who loved him.

But, as I said. He recognized that his life would not go on much longer and chose the path that he did. I won't presume to know his mind, but it appeared that he wanted to die in service to the people who he loved, instead of dying in his bed with no strength left in him.

I can only hope that I have the courage to do the same when my time comes.
Anslo
Scope Works
#82 - 2013-03-19 18:24:10 UTC
You may not like her views, but she's allowed to have them. Just like Schere is allowed hers and you yours, Msr. Raithe. It's a bit hypocritical to condemn her viewpoint of condemning Scherezad's actions, don't you think?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#83 - 2013-03-19 18:27:32 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
First, Miss Scherezad. It almost seems like your veterans are forced to think they are worthless in old age. I rather think after a lifetime of service it should be rewarded and the government should give back just a bit to make it so he wasn't suicidal due to feeling unwanted not disease. The way you described it with his sharp mind it seemed like overly flowered mental depression validated by the state.


We do not force our grandparents to think anything. Aten was a happy man who loved his daughter and grandson. He spent a great deal of his time at the creche, reading to the younger children; he also helped the custodians from time to time. He lived surrounded by those he loved and those who loved him.

But, as I said. He recognized that his life would not go on much longer and chose the path that he did. I won't presume to know his mind, but it appeared that he wanted to die in service to the people who he loved, instead of dying in his bed with no strength left in him.

I can only hope that I have the courage to do the same when my time comes.


I guess I can cross Caldari space off for the Grandparent's retirement home.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#84 - 2013-03-19 18:40:00 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
I guess I can cross Caldari space off for the Grandparent's retirement home.


Wait, you want to send your grandparents away when they retire? Why would you want to do such a thing?
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#85 - 2013-03-19 18:40:55 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
The Federal Navy dispatched us quickly. Do not feel anger or sadness, save for the loss of a loyal hero of the Caldari people.

Rest easy, Aten Meteriushi, Rikugun Taii. You have come home.

This is moving.

Sleep well, old warrior.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#86 - 2013-03-19 18:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kallo Unarmored
Scherezad wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
I guess I can cross Caldari space off for the Grandparent's retirement home.


Wait, you want to send your grandparents away when they retire? Why would you want to do such a thing?


Because I can't be there every hour of every day yet make money to feed us. We sometimes send them to a 'home' where they can be social, have fun events, and get the 24/7 medical care they need. Otherwise we keep them in the family; that is if they are good people and the family likes them. The story changes when abuse, bad blood, and other domestic issues come up.
Aja Jinn
Doomheim
#87 - 2013-03-19 19:02:09 UTC

So Executor Heth has dispached his hound, Admiral Visera Yanala, to Luminaire.
To squat in the leviathon class titan that threatens Luminaire VII.
What good could possibly come of this reckless move?
There are some among us that question Tibus Heths methods.
There are others that question Tibus Heths sanity.
Will Heth use this opportunity to remove this monstrosity 'peacefully'?
I don't think so.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#88 - 2013-03-19 19:10:08 UTC
Aja Jinn wrote:

So Executor Heth has dispached his hound, Admiral Visera Yanala, to Luminaire.
To squat in the leviathon class titan that threatens Luminaire VII.
What good could possibly come of this reckless move?
There are some among us that question Tibus Heths methods.
There are others that question Tibus Heths sanity.
Will Heth use this opportunity to remove this monstrosity 'peacefully'?
I don't think so.


I question the use of the term "reckless" to describe sending an experienced general into what might soon be a warzone.
Kallo Unarmored
Doomheim
#89 - 2013-03-19 19:11:29 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:


I question the use of the term "reckless" to describe sending an experienced general into what might soon be a warzone.


Agreed, I just don't think she is there to keep the peace.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#90 - 2013-03-19 19:14:31 UTC
Aja Jinn wrote:

Will Heth use this opportunity to remove this monstrosity 'peacefully'?


If the Leviathan and support fleet are to leave 'peacefully' then the Federation must give them a reason to do so. The recent events and statements by Mentas Blaque and President Roden's platform of returning Home to the Federation are what anchors the fleet and Admirla Visera Yanala around our Homeworld. Until Roden recants his 'promise' of retaking Home and people stop encouraging the violent rebellion of the Gallente populace planetside you can expect security and hostilities to escalate.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#91 - 2013-03-19 19:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:


I question the use of the term "reckless" to describe sending an experienced general into what might soon be a warzone.


Agreed, I just don't think she is there to keep the peace.


There is no 'peace' to keep - there never has been one. She is a safe pair of hands for what is coming and I'm glad to see her in her proper place again.

From time to time people allow themselves to forget the cost of war. It seems inevitable that both our peoples will shortly be presented with a brand new Butcher's Bill to pay. I only hope that the reckoning is sufficiently steep to give both sides pause and yet no so steep that we'll forever be repaying each other.

Scherezad, it is rare that we get to meet one of the Ancestors while they are still living. You have been blessed beyond measure in your association with this man and my sorrow at his passing is tempered only by my pride in the manner of it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#92 - 2013-03-19 20:08:56 UTC
Anslo wrote:
You may not like her views, but she's allowed to have them. Just like Schere is allowed hers and you yours, Msr. Raithe. It's a bit hypocritical to condemn her viewpoint of condemning Scherezad's actions, don't you think?


She's allowed to have them and I am allowed to debate them. I do not recall telling her otherwise.

Also no, I don't think it's hypocritical to condemn her opinions of criticism over another individual's actions. I think it's hypocritical to feign a moral high ground when there is none.
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#93 - 2013-03-19 20:10:54 UTC
Kallo Unarmored wrote:

Sometimes arguments aren't double sided like a coin; if they were there would be only one or two Empires due to bureaucracy and a lot fewer wars if both sides were 'correct' on social issues.


Yet sometimes they are and your answer has no bearing on the original question. I only suggested that you seek to understand the mindset of another before you condemn them for being different than yourself. You may, of course, choose to neglect this suggestion.
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2013-03-20 01:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Adel Khamez
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Kallo Unarmored wrote:
I guess I can cross Caldari space off for the Grandparent's retirement home.


Wait, you want to send your grandparents away when they retire? Why would you want to do such a thing?


Because I can't be there every hour of every day yet make money to feed us. We sometimes send them to a 'home' where they can be social, have fun events, and get the 24/7 medical care they need. Otherwise we keep them in the family; that is if they are good people and the family likes them. The story changes when abuse, bad blood, and other domestic issues come up.


You are a capsuleer.

A single ISK is worth an enormous amount of planetary currency. I can buy slaves locally for 400 ISK each ( including a cargo hold stasis box for transport ), even at inflated Kingdom prices.

Surely you can afford to take better care of your relatives, even in that pesthole you call the Federation?

Go mine some veldspar for a day, and hire your grandparents some servants.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#95 - 2013-03-20 02:27:41 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
You are a capsuleer.

A single ISK is worth an enormous amount of planetary currency. I can buy slaves locally for 400 ISK each ( including a cargo hold stasis box for transport ), even at inflated Kingdom prices.

Surely you can afford to take better care of your relatives, even in that pesthole you call the Federation?

Go mine some veldspar for a day, and hire your grandparents some servants.

The elderly people's home Msr. Kallo described sounds like good care, to me.

Like every other labor, care for the decrepit is a job best left to professionals and administered by the state. Expecting distant relatives such as grandchildren to take care of such business is unreasonable in the extreme.

It is unreasonable toward the relatives, because it assumes an obligation that does not inherently exist, and demands they take time away from their own careers and pursuits in order to perform a task they are not necessarily educated and/or competent to perform.

It is unreasonable toward the afflicted, because it strongly favors those who do have relatives, and whose relatives are compassionate toward them and who also have the time and talent to see to their care properly.

Equal care for all of society's age-afflicted people, enforced by a higher, central authority, is by far the most humane approach.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#96 - 2013-03-20 07:53:12 UTC
Mekhana wrote:


Idealistically, I'm against the invasion and occupation of a Gallente world.


But it's not a Gallente world! Your Federation invaded it in the first place! You came along, pushed out the local populace and claimed it as your own. There are still native ancestral tribes living in the cold peaks!

Now you're suddenly upset when we return to take it back. Quite frankly you're lucky our expeditionary forces stopped there. Imagine if a more imperialistic force had arrived. You might have ended up learning another language...

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
#97 - 2013-03-20 08:28:12 UTC
Only when the Caldari presence is excised from Luminaire can the two empires ever reach any sort of peace.

Luminaire VII ceased to be a Caldari world when the Caldari abandoned it. Move on.

Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#98 - 2013-03-20 08:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: BloodBird
Scherezad wrote:
One of the joys I have ...


I am not completely sure from your tale here if this choice was made by the pair in question, or you or anyone else offered it to them. Did they decide on this themselves?

Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Mekhana wrote:


Idealistically, I'm against the invasion and occupation of a Gallente world.


But it's not a Gallente world! Your Federation invaded it in the first place! You came along, pushed out the local populace and claimed it as your own. There are still native ancestral tribes living in the cold peaks!

Now you're suddenly upset when we return to take it back. Quite frankly you're lucky our expeditionary forces stopped there. Imagine if a more imperialistic force had arrived. You might have ended up learning another language...



The majority of the local population decided to support their new State and that State decided to leave, taking their new subjects with them. They left pro-State forces behind to keep fighting the pro-Federation Caldari and the official Federation forces on the planet and left.

The world remained under the control of the Federation member-states that ruled it, even if some of them no longer existed due to a variety of reasons.

No matter what right you claim to it, these are facts. The people who lived there when the State invaded had ancestors they could track back until first-contact when their families settled on the world and in the case of the Caldari population, for far longer than that. Just because the Caldari who left and recently returned claim to be the only rightful owners and are in the majority don't mean that the peoples who remained there suddenly lose any right to exist.

I surely hope this admiral Heth has instated remembers this and remind her troops of it, otherwise... well, things can always get worse.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#99 - 2013-03-20 09:37:35 UTC
BloodBird wrote:

The majority of the local population decided to support their new State and that State decided to leave, taking their new subjects with them. They left pro-State forces behind to keep fighting the pro-Federation Caldari and the official Federation forces on the planet and left.



When an armada points its weapons at you and starts bombing you into oblivion... staying is hardly a logical option. If we had not colonised those new worlds before hand, we'd have had no-where to run when your true colours came to be.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#100 - 2013-03-20 10:17:32 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
BloodBird wrote:

The majority of the local population decided to support their new State and that State decided to leave, taking their new subjects with them. They left pro-State forces behind to keep fighting the pro-Federation Caldari and the official Federation forces on the planet and left.



When an armada points its weapons at you and starts bombing you into oblivion... staying is hardly a logical option. If we had not colonised those new worlds before hand, we'd have had no-where to run when your true colours came to be.


The Caldari nations who remained with the Federation had several colonies that were registered and full member-states in their own right. The Mega-corporations that formed the new "Caldari" State operated the hidden colonies and profited greatly from them. These worlds would form the core of the new State once it had evacuated Caldari Prime, realizing that if they stayed they would love and surrender to the Federation would be their only option. This decision was made months after the one day long bombardment of the planet, after it became clear that the State could not win the ground-war.

I agree that it was a sound tactical move to make, but you still abandoned the planet, letting this territory fall back into the hands of the peoples you had tried to take it from - the pro-Federation Caldari who remained when you left.

Today you are back on this world engaging in that same ground-war you abandoned earlier, only this time the population opposes you and there is no Federal space-superiority to worry about. By the looks of things, it's not going to well for you, and soon it might all go very, very badly for everyone involved.