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Remove High-Sec Belts and replace with Roaming Grav Sites
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#61 - 2013-03-28 16:25:57 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Grav sites should be something you can find with the system scanner anyway, and that requires no skills to use whatsoever. Newbie problem solved.


i fail to see the point in this.

instead of right clicking anywhere and clicking warp to belt, i have to open the scanner, hit scan, then warp to a belt.
other than more clicks and thus tedium, what does this actually achieve?


yeah the system scanner wouldnt change much other than making sure ur in range of the belt.

would have thought the grav sites would have needed probing like typical grav sites. but leave veld and scord belts on the drop down menu

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#62 - 2013-03-28 23:56:09 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Rented wrote:
I find the notion that this would prevent bots in the slightest... fairly amusing. I suspect you greatly overestimate the difficulty of automating scanning, not that it much matters. I could do it myself and I'm really not very good at that sort of thing.

That given, the reasons you give are respectively-
1) Totally ineffective, and a far greater annoyance to legit players than botters, rendering this point practically irrelevant.
2) Virtually unrelated, if you somehow have difficulty finding rocks in highsec (a feat of its own), addressing the issue of rocks respawning only at downtime, directly, would be more reasonable.


If you are suggesting doing two responds a day, DT and 12 hours later, I think that action would be the one to flood the market with minerals and kill the cost. Bots mine until the belt is empty, by re spawning it 12 hours later you are likely to make it easier to bot....I don't suppose you bot for making that suggestion?


Your lack of imagination is matched only by your capacity for reasoning.

1. I made no such suggestion, you did... and it's incredibly crude and poorly thought out.
2. I find it all manner of amusing you make a stupid suggestion, and are then upset with me... for your own suggestion being stupid...
3. Respawns wouldn't need to be done in fixed intervals.
4. Respawns don't have to be complete, or even constant.
5. Clearly your poorly reasoned misconceptions indicate I'm definately a leet bot-lord. (sarcasm, if you're unable to notice)
Angelic Resolution
The Arcanum
#63 - 2013-03-29 13:06:45 UTC
Rented wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Rented wrote:
I find the notion that this would prevent bots in the slightest... fairly amusing. I suspect you greatly overestimate the difficulty of automating scanning, not that it much matters. I could do it myself and I'm really not very good at that sort of thing.

That given, the reasons you give are respectively-
1) Totally ineffective, and a far greater annoyance to legit players than botters, rendering this point practically irrelevant.
2) Virtually unrelated, if you somehow have difficulty finding rocks in highsec (a feat of its own), addressing the issue of rocks respawning only at downtime, directly, would be more reasonable.


If you are suggesting doing two responds a day, DT and 12 hours later, I think that action would be the one to flood the market with minerals and kill the cost. Bots mine until the belt is empty, by re spawning it 12 hours later you are likely to make it easier to bot....I don't suppose you bot for making that suggestion?


Your lack of imagination is matched only by your capacity for reasoning.

1. I made no such suggestion, you did... and it's incredibly crude and poorly thought out.
2. I find it all manner of amusing you make a stupid suggestion, and are then upset with me... for your own suggestion being stupid...
3. Respawns wouldn't need to be done in fixed intervals.
4. Respawns don't have to be complete, or even constant.
5. Clearly your poorly reasoned misconceptions indicate I'm definately a leet bot-lord. (sarcasm, if you're unable to notice)



If you can find a way to automate the scanning down of Grav Sites using a third party program, I would 100% love to see it and be proven wrong tbh.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#64 - 2013-03-29 14:03:49 UTC
Angelic Resolution wrote:
If you can find a way to automate the scanning down of Grav Sites using a third party program, I would 100% love to see it and be proven wrong tbh.

http://kolobok.us/smiles/standart/rofl.gif
Long since exists.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Angelic Resolution
The Arcanum
#65 - 2013-03-30 06:36:28 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Angelic Resolution wrote:
If you can find a way to automate the scanning down of Grav Sites using a third party program, I would 100% love to see it and be proven wrong tbh.

http://kolobok.us/smiles/standart/rofl.gif
Long since exists.


So you've actually been able to automate 3d mapping within a 2nd environment? Sorry, pics or lies? Considering a 2d interface wouldn't allow a program to 'see' the Z axis correctly, you'd need a hook into the Client. Which again; detectable.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#66 - 2013-03-30 06:48:01 UTC
Botters hardly care about detectability. They are doing it willingly, carefully calculating the cost of potential loss of account. Take off your pink glasses, there's ingame bots exist for every MMO.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#67 - 2013-03-30 07:07:04 UTC
This would not stop bots. They can be programmed to scan. They can be programmed to do much much more, for example:

A bot is world Chess champion
A bot can drive a rover on Mars
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion
Google has bots driving cars in traffic

Compared to that, scanning is easy enough that one person can program it. If needed you could even totally avoid putting software on the computer running the client. Point a web camera at the screen, place solenoids over the keyboard, use an XY pen plotter to move the mouse and connect all to a second computer. (In reality, a virtual machine allows a far simpler solution).

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Angelic Resolution
The Arcanum
#68 - 2013-03-30 11:02:35 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
This would not stop bots. They can be programmed to scan. They can be programmed to do much much more, for example:

A bot is world Chess champion
A bot can drive a rover on Mars
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion
Google has bots driving cars in traffic

Compared to that, scanning is easy enough that one person can program it. If needed you could even totally avoid putting software on the computer running the client. Point a web camera at the screen, place solenoids over the keyboard, use an XY pen plotter to move the mouse and connect all to a second computer. (In reality, a virtual machine allows a far simpler solution).



lmfao.. you're hilarious.

And fyi, probe scanning - which is required for grav sites - isn't the same as D-Scan. Just so everyone's aware, might want to look into just how complicated it would be to try and 'bot' probes.

Also can you take a look at issue 2? Thanks =)
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-03-30 11:56:21 UTC
Angelic Resolution wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
This would not stop bots. They can be programmed to scan. They can be programmed to do much much more, for example:

A bot is world Chess champion
A bot can drive a rover on Mars
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion
Google has bots driving cars in traffic

Compared to that, scanning is easy enough that one person can program it. If needed you could even totally avoid putting software on the computer running the client. Point a web camera at the screen, place solenoids over the keyboard, use an XY pen plotter to move the mouse and connect all to a second computer. (In reality, a virtual machine allows a far simpler solution).



lmfao.. you're hilarious.

And fyi, probe scanning - which is required for grav sites - isn't the same as D-Scan. Just so everyone's aware, might want to look into just how complicated it would be to try and 'bot' probes.

Also can you take a look at issue 2? Thanks =)

I had to laugh at this also lets see;

A bot is world Chess champion, this was a multi million dollar project, and chess can be broken down to patterns in almost every match. It uses a limited grid system with only a certain number of move combinations.

A bot can drive a rover on Mars, another multi million (maybe even billion) dollar project.

A bot is world Jeopardy! champion, congratulations this is probably one of the easiest thing for a computer to do.

Google has bots driving cars in traffic, again another multi million dollar project.

How much money do you think people are willing to pay for a program to play there game for them? I doubt any thing more than $100,000 would be asking a little too much.Roll

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sassaniak
Deadspace Zombie Factory
#70 - 2013-03-30 12:05:07 UTC
That list was just an example of what bots can do, and i think that they are all harder then the scanning done in the eve environment.

I am sure that there could have been a large number of less well known examples that he could have listed that would have had you googling for answers but the net of what he said is the same.

...............................................................................

Sometimes, you all make me very disappointed.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-03-30 12:24:24 UTC
A quick Google search shows there are still no scanning bots out there.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#72 - 2013-03-30 13:21:40 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
A quick Google search shows there are still no scanning bots out there.

Because if it isn't listed on the first page of Google when searching "eve scanny bot thingy", it simply cannot exist. Not that it matters, because making one isn't hard at all.

It hurts my brain when people without the slightest grasp or knowledge of programming or code, nevertheless profess to be experts on what can and can't be coded, and how hard or easy it would be.

Oh the wonders of the internet.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-03-30 13:25:42 UTC
Rented wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
A quick Google search shows there are still no scanning bots out there.

Because if it isn't listed on the first page of Google when searching "eve scanny bot thingy", it simply cannot exist. Not that it matters, because making one isn't hard at all.

If it is so easy than do it.
Rented wrote:

It hurts my brain when people without the slightest grasp or knowledge of programming or code, nevertheless profess to be experts on what can and can't be coded, and how hard or easy it would be.

I have programmed in the past, it wasn't my thing but I understand it none the less.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#74 - 2013-03-30 13:34:55 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I have programmed in the past, it wasn't my thing but I understand it none the less.


Omnathious Deninard wrote:
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion, congratulations this is probably one of the easiest thing for a computer to do.


Facepalm.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-03-30 13:40:08 UTC
Rented wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I have programmed in the past, it wasn't my thing but I understand it none the less.


Omnathious Deninard wrote:
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion, congratulations this is probably one of the easiest thing for a computer to do.


Facepalm.

Pulling data from an array is not that complicated, input selects key words and searched data banks for the approiate answer. Linda like how a games how video game works.
Facepalm to you too

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#76 - 2013-03-30 13:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rented
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Rented wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I have programmed in the past, it wasn't my thing but I understand it none the less.


Omnathious Deninard wrote:
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion, congratulations this is probably one of the easiest thing for a computer to do.


Facepalm.

Pulling data from an array is not that complicated, input selects key words and searched data banks for the approiate answer. Linda like how a games how video game works.
Facepalm to you too


I'd find it horrifying you make no mention of complex syntax, grammar, context, and sentence analysis except that was basically what I'd expected you to say already.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-03-30 14:06:43 UTC
Rented wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Rented wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I have programmed in the past, it wasn't my thing but I understand it none the less.


Omnathious Deninard wrote:
A bot is world Jeopardy! champion, congratulations this is probably one of the easiest thing for a computer to do.


Facepalm.

Pulling data from an array is not that complicated, input selects key words and searched data banks for the approiate answer. Linda like how a games how video game works.
Facepalm to you too


I'd find it horrifying you make no mention of complex syntax, grammar, context, and sentence analysis except that was basically what I'd expected you to say already.

I find it amusing that you not only fail to back up you claim that a scanning bot would be easy to program.
I also find it amusing that you keep claiming the jeopardy bot is a testament to software and it is really a testament to hardware.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Taritura
Achozen Dueces TecH
#78 - 2013-03-30 14:27:24 UTC
1. Simple thing make a lot more sigs per system. It's easy to scan a system in under 5 minutes ....
I would love to drop probes and see 80 - 100 signals in system.
Make scanning a real adventure. now it is like drop porbes scan ok next system.... Scaning a whole solar system should take time. if you have 100 sigs in null ss it will be a lot harder for hostiles to find you
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#79 - 2013-03-30 14:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Rented
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I find it amusing that you not only fail to back up you claim that a scanning bot would be easy to program.
I also find it amusing that you keep claiming the jeopardy bot is a testament to software and it is really a testament to hardware.

Back up my claim, to whom? If you were capable of properly judging such evidences, there would be no need to provide them. It's a bit of a catch-22. If you're proposing I write such a bot just to prove it can be done, holding the hands of those who grasp firmly to their misconceptions isn't my concern, quite simply... no.

As concerning the Jeopardy bot, since you seem to put great stock in crappy google searches, read, learn, and perhaps understand.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-03-30 15:03:02 UTC
Rented wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I find it amusing that you not only fail to back up you claim that a scanning bot would be easy to program.
I also find it amusing that you keep claiming the jeopardy bot is a testament to software and it is really a testament to hardware.



As concerning the Jeopardy bot, since you seem to put great stock in crappy google searches, read, learn, and perhaps understand.

thank you for proving my statement on the jeopardy bot. http://www.technewsdaily.com/2068-jeopardy-vs-computer-how-ibms-watson-works.html

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.