EVE General Discussion

Simple: PvP should be profitable if done right.
The difference is that gankers go after targets that have made themselves valuable by stuffing their ships full of goodies. The average combat-fit target will not do that because he's half-planning on losing his ship and doesn't want that loss to be too big. As a result, he fits it (relatively) cheaply.

Even so, PvP can be plenty profitable if you can avoid being blown up. You're still looking at a couple of tens of millions in T2 modules and salvage (especially if you killed a T2 ship) if you win the fight.

Why should it not be profitable to rob people of their valuables?

As luck would have it, this doesn't happen any more, and the only reason it happened in the past was because the barges chose to make themselves easy and profitable targets, meaning it was entirely as it should be that you could make a profit from killing them.

This. Even small gang and solo fights generate a lot of loot. ****, I scoop pretty much any loot I find lying around and salvage when I can. If you head out into facwar space specifically to salvage and loot you can sometimes make quite a bit if you're daring enough. The best part is when you're flying some trade route and scoop gank ship loot; those meta 1400mm guns are worth a decent chunk.

People leave **** lying around all the time; if they're not going to clean up after themselves, I certainly will.

Really? What alliance is your main in, I can help show you the error in that belief.

My thought is ganking hulls (salvage only)
should be unprofitable.
Period end of it all.
Now ganking ships fit with no tank, just hull plus mods should be profitable as the mods now drop, but you must use appropriate ships, ie something other than large value n of gankalysts.
An easy way to solve this factor of gankalysts killing everything for single digit percent of the cost would be to have Concord jam and neut along with their warp scramming.
Larger ships will laugh at this as they fit cap boosters and eccm mods (im looking at you awesome people of batcounty)
This allows gankalysts to get off a few shots without hampering the larger ships.
Basically the issue is that as it stands, if someone can obtain sufficient gankalysts they will kill you regardless of tank and always well below mod drop.
That is my complaint.
Dont nerf dessies, dont hurt big ships with more slots.
Just remove one specific style of play that currently can not be countered.
Alphanados are acceptable as that is their role.
Gankalyst however get to move within optimal and you can watch them prepare but nothing can be done to stop it.

Though that would be nice to have, some method of acting on gankers so as to remove the whole bit of by the time you can react it is already over.

Ooh maybe have a Concord patrol in system that flits between belts and customs office and cannot be drug away.
This way those at keyboard get to see the patrol warp off and know to follow while those afk have to continue rolling dice.
No need to nerf or buff and it rewards active play while not nerfing afk play.

Ganking should be profitable.

ie. you don't do it for unprofitable targets unless you especially enjoy this activity.

High sec can be almost completely safe if you follow the first rule of eve. In fact, the corollary should be 'don't fly something others can afford to lose ships destroying on the averages'

Can't be done. Anything killable by an “appropriate ship” can be killed by n “inappropriate” ones.

This already happens.

It can be countered just fine. The whole “add more ships” solution is countered by itself because “more ships” means “less profit” and “smaller shares of the profit”, which means you quickly reach a point of unprofitability compared to using larger, more capable ships.

It also runs afoul of the patently absurd notion that one ship should be able to stand up to ten or thirty or fifty or however many that large n turns out to be.

There are no such ships.

Really I thought the neuting and jamming happens only after they arrive on scene not during transits.
And yeah I agree there is no way to counter determined numbers.
The idea was to just make it so the AMD solution was a lot worse idea.

Though what of the having a patrol in place already?
Since to my understanding shooting while Concord is within 150km means you only get the one shot.

Also, even if it was profitable to kill some T2 fit Maelstrom running missions with 10 T1 fit Catalysts costing ~4M each, which it is not, you'd have 10 characters locked down for the next 15 minutes, and assuming that you only need 10 of them to kill that Maelstrom, they'd have to have fairly good gunnery skills, so they're not throwaway characters. The potential profit would also be pathetically low, even if you owned all 10 characters. Mining scordite in Ventures would be more profitable than that.

Can you show me the fit that drops 19M from a mack?

actually I'm looking at a T1 Catalyst fit that costs less than 2m and it's **** for suicide ganking, dealing only 330 DPS with all skills at 5 and faction antimatter

a handful of those might kill a mackinaw but it's hardly profitable since the value of the potential drop less the value of the ships used for the gank leaves hardly any profit at all.