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Should Ganking be profitable?

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#541 - 2013-03-23 18:14:22 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Point being gankers/pirates are allowed to roam around in hi-sec because?
Because the game would suffer from mechanically enforcing restrictions on players' movement.

Quote:
This is a hi-sec safety net which only adds to the already existing balance issue.
What balance issue?
What safety net? Being -10 is, if anything, an unsafety net.

Quote:
Sorry do your own research not doing it for you.
So in other words, you have nothing to offer that would prove him wrong and you right.



The very ones that have and are being discussed through out this thread Tippia.



Let's get back on track then...

What would you propose be done? Keep in mind we want something that can be argued, not for argument sake, but for balance. There has to be pros and cons therefore some thought must be given to such a proposal.

You said I should do my research in this thread, and I have. I started with the OP that referenced exhumers being changed as to not offer a profit from the hull being salvaged after being destroyed (which ganking is a facet of obviously, but a wreck is a wreck).

So what changes would you like to be made, that haven't already been made?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#542 - 2013-03-23 18:15:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:

Was this before or after being kicked from the country?


Knighted for his piracy against the spanish. Made second in command of the royal fleet that defeated the spanish armada seven years later. Also a close companion of the queen.

Seems you know as little history in RL as in this game.



I don't think he was ever kicked from his country to be honest.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#543 - 2013-03-23 18:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Some one brought up the pirates of old. Were they allowed to sail around the seas unmolested? No they were hunted down and hung.



We knighted pirates. One became a Vice Admiral of the royal navy.

Was this before or after being kicked from the country?

The man baltec1 refers to is Sir Francis Drake, Pirate, Privateer, Member of Parliament, Knight, Slaver, and Vice Admiral of the Royal Navy are amongst his achievements. For the record he was never kicked out of England, at least as far as the history books go.

Whitehound wrote:

And we chopped the heads off of kings, too.

If only we could do the same to bad posters.

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#544 - 2013-03-23 18:17:18 UTC
Touchin Myself wrote:
This thread makes me sad... Lets take away what makes EVE EVE for the sake of some crybabies that got suicide ganked.

How many of you guys complaining have actually had it happen to you? How many have just heard about it and are being little scaredy cats?

The whole point of EVE is to be an anything goes player run sandbox. What you guys are asking for goes against the very essence of EVE. This is not supposed to be your hand holding solo friendly MMO, if you thought so you where very mistaken.

"Oh but, hi sec is supposed to be safe" WRONG.



Thankfully, it seems to be one or two people saying 'ganking is bad', with a larger number of people saying 'no it isn't, just stop carrying 15 billion in your freighter, and stick a tank on your barge'



Ganking: It's not good. It's not bad. It's just EVE. Live with it, or leave.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#545 - 2013-03-23 18:19:30 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Some one brought up the pirates of old. Were they allowed to sail around the seas unmolested? No they were hunted down and hung.



We knighted pirates. One became a Vice Admiral of the royal navy.

Was this before or after being kicked from the country?

The man baltec1 refers to is Sir Francis Drake, Pirate, Privateer, Member of Parliament, Knight, Slaver, and Vice Admiral of the Royal Navy are amongst his achievements. For the record he was never kicked out of England, at least as far as the history books go.

Whitehound wrote:

And we chopped the heads off of kings, too.

If only we could do the same to bad posters.

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?



Sounds like an Amarr. I like him already.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#546 - 2013-03-23 18:19:52 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Ganking: It's not good. It's not bad. It's just EVE.
Specifically, it “was, is and will remain a proper endorsed activity in EVE”, according to the devs. Blink
Whitehound
#547 - 2013-03-23 18:20:36 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#548 - 2013-03-23 18:21:42 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?

Because it was, is and will remain a proper endorsed activity in EVE.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#549 - 2013-03-23 18:21:45 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?


It adds interesting gameplay possibilities, and helps prevent mudflation.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#550 - 2013-03-23 18:23:30 UTC
I have all day if you want to keep playing this dumb game. I told you I am just as capable as being just as obtuse and pig headed as some of you have already shown to be. You think because you can continue to ask the same questions over and over that have already been answered that this some how makes that persons point of view or opinion any less valid. Sorry it does not.

There is a imbalance in the game at the moment in regards to the mechanics of hi-sec ganking/pirates and the profit associated with it. Asking the same questions over and over doesn’t change the fact that it exist.

I can understand why those who abuse or exploit this imbalance choose not to acknowledge it. NIMBY Not in my back yard.

This game like all things can and will change. Just like when they proposed the barge change. Prior to the change there was the very exact same arguments and methods used to try and counter or invalidate the need for that change also. Guess what the game changed.

Pointing out imbalance is not a bad thing and I will continue to do so until they kick from the forums.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#551 - 2013-03-23 18:23:35 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?



Because I can.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#552 - 2013-03-23 18:23:40 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?


To get rich.
Whitehound
#553 - 2013-03-23 18:24:01 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?


It adds interesting gameplay possibilities, and helps prevent mudflation.

The majority hates being robbed.

So why should you?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#554 - 2013-03-23 18:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?

Because we can, because it's a sandbox and the game mechanics allow us to, because people refuse to tank their ships, excluding freighters, because people insist on putting obscene ISK values in cargo and because some people are so damn lazy they can't be bothered to actually be at the keyboard while they "play" the game.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#555 - 2013-03-23 18:24:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?

Because it was, is and will remain a proper endorsed activity in EVE.

Not valid reason..see how that works Big smile
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#556 - 2013-03-23 18:25:44 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
I have all day if you want to keep playing this dumb game. I told you I am just as capable as being just as obtuse and pig headed as some of you have already shown to be. You think because you can continue to ask the same questions over and over that have already been answered that this some how makes that persons point of view or opinion any less valid. Sorry it does not.

There is a imbalance in the game at the moment in regards to the mechanics of hi-sec ganking/pirates and the profit associated with it. Asking the same questions over and over doesn’t change the fact that it exist.

I can understand why those who abuse or exploit this imbalance choose not to acknowledge it. NIMBY Not in my back yard.

This game like all things can and will change. Just like when they proposed the barge change. Prior to the change there was the very exact same arguments and methods used to try and counter or invalidate the need for that change also. Guess what the game changed.

Pointing out imbalance is not a bad thing and I will continue to do so until they kick from the forums.


We still gank barges.

There is also nothing at all imbalanced with ganking because it is entirely avoidable.
Whitehound
#557 - 2013-03-23 18:26:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?

Because we can, because it's a sandbox and the game mechanics allow us to, and because some people are so damn lazy they can't be bothered to actually be at the keyboard while they "play" the game.

And we can change it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#558 - 2013-03-23 18:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Why should you?

Because it was, is and will remain a proper endorsed activity in EVE.

Not valid reason..see how that works Big smile


How is that not valid? CCP decide what is and what is not an endorsed playstyle, not you, in this case Eve is promoted as a game where piracy is a valid playstyle, and piracy implies that you make a profit when you gank something.

Whitehound wrote:

And we can change it.

Yes we can, by encouraging people to not AFK, actually sacrifice some yield for survivability and to not cram billions of ISK into untanked ships. If people actually make the effort to make ganking them unprofitable, they tend not to get ganked.

Ganking is not a balance problem, it's a social problem.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#559 - 2013-03-23 18:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
I have all day if you want to keep playing this dumb game. I told you I am just as capable as being just as obtuse and pig headed as some of you have already shown to be. You think because you can continue to ask the same questions over and over that have already been answered that this some how makes that persons point of view or opinion any less valid. Sorry it does not.

There is a imbalance in the game at the moment in regards to the mechanics of hi-sec ganking/pirates and the profit associated with it. Asking the same questions over and over doesn’t change the fact that it exist.

I can understand why those who abuse or exploit this imbalance choose not to acknowledge it. NIMBY Not in my back yard.

This game like all things can and will change. Just like when they proposed the barge change. Prior to the change there was the very exact same arguments and methods used to try and counter or invalidate the need for that change also. Guess what the game changed.

Pointing out imbalance is not a bad thing and I will continue to do so until they kick from the forums.



Here's a few questions then, to spice things up-

Should I be able to salvage exhumer wrecks I find in belts, regardless if player or npc created?

Can I loot those wrecks, even at the cost of me getting a suspect flag (courtesy of Eve's long in place mechanics)?

Are you trying to imply that highsec should have a specific mechanic installed that would not make any wreck of a player ship be lootable or salvagable?

Keep in mind, you did ask for new questions, and I do not think these questions have been provided as of yet, even though they ARE topic related, and are in fact associated with the "problems" you are presenting with highsec, and ganking/pirating/mindingeveryonesbusiness.

Oh! and as an edit... the game didn't change with the barge changes. The ships changed, but they still got and get ganked.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#560 - 2013-03-23 18:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
There is a imbalance in the game at the moment in regards to the mechanics of hi-sec ganking/pirates and the profit associated with it.
…and what's the imbalance?

Quote:
This game like all things can and will change. Just like when they proposed the barge change. Prior to the change there was the very exact same arguments and methods used to try and counter or invalidate the need for that change also.
Not really, no. The arguments against the barge change was simply one of method rather than goal. No-one opposed them being changed, but rather them being changed in a way that didn't add player choice.

Quote:
Pointing out imbalance is not a bad thing and I will continue to do so until they kick from the forums.
You have to start before you can continue, and you haven't even started yet. All you've done is said that there is an imbalance, but you haven't shown that there actually is one.

Quote:
Not valid reason..see how that works
It's the most valid reason there can be: because the devs say so. So no, I don't quite see how that would work since you're arguing against reality… as always.