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Should Ganking be profitable?

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Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#461 - 2013-03-23 16:34:24 UTC
Danks wrote:
If you're worried about the time wasted when someone takes away your internet pixels maybe you shouldn't have put that time into your internet pixels in the first place.


Same should hold true for worrying over making a profit when you gank someone.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#462 - 2013-03-23 16:34:44 UTC
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#463 - 2013-03-23 16:35:51 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


I'd suggest looking up the laws that govern CCP then. See how that applies. Beyond that, it wouldn't belong in this post since that would include hacking the account and doing a pilot-pilot transfer. Awoxing, scamming ingame et al is not against the virtual laws of CCP's world.

We are talking about using a spaceship for it's intended use; to blow up another spaceship.


Agreed, but the post was in reaction to the question: why can't you gank someone for profit. And also in reaction to Soltice's excellent comment.

Back to the topic at hand then: Yes you should gank for profit. But as I said before, the punishment for doing so should be more severe. It's now the weak individual vs the strong group. Then the weak individual should form up as well right? You're absolutely right, but not everyone plays an MMO the way you must play it. If that would be the case, then CCP would have to force players out of the NPC corps and have them join with player-corps. (Come to think of it, would that be a bad thing I wonder?)

Anyway, as far as the topic goes, let's not de-rail any further. Though I do find these conversations on forums very interesting. That's what you get when you've studied sociology I suppose P.



Well, in all honesty, you cannot say weak vs strong. That's too "relative".

If I can make a 2 day old pilot, and awox a corp and steal 1 billion of corp isk, or have a 1 week old pvp pilot gank a 5 year old miner for his fittings... I'm the weaker, favored over the strong.

I simply won (by Eve's standards).

It's not a bullying tactic, or even unfair. It's perfectly fair, otherwise I should be able to mine in a bantam and make more than a mack using that same mentality, which we all know is untrue.

"Ganking for profit" is the weirdest homogenized term to date in this thread, and suprisingly, it's the main focus of this thread!

I think it's simply a broken ideology from the beginning, but opinions were asked for.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#464 - 2013-03-23 16:36:06 UTC
Mag's wrote:

That case involved real life violence, hence why it ended up in court.


No no, not that one. That was like.. 5 years ago? No, I read about it when I was in Australia, so that must have been around 2010-ish. It never got any huge attention I suppose. The only reason why I still remember parts of it was because it never lead to RL-violence. The original owner just sued the digital thief to court.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#465 - 2013-03-23 16:37:17 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

why should you?



Because Eve is about taking from someone else. CCP even gives you multiple methods on how to do that; ransoming, scamming, ganking, pvp, EVEN FW is about taking from someone else.


You forgot Gifting P

There have been 3 charities, 2 to help people in RL emergency with the PLEX for good campaign and one gathering "2nd hand" mods etc. to give to new pilots, recently featured on the EvE news.



That's true! You can do good as well! I've also taken a chance on one of those "send isk and I'll double it" games and have come away richer.

But it's definitely social in nature =).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#466 - 2013-03-23 16:37:39 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Danks wrote:
If you're worried about the time wasted when someone takes away your internet pixels maybe you shouldn't have put that time into your internet pixels in the first place.


Same should hold true for worrying over making a profit when you gank someone.


Right now I can control my likelihood of being ganked just by keeping my fitting and cargo cost low. I'd like to keep it that way.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#467 - 2013-03-23 16:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

why should you?


Because we have been playing as pirates for a decade.

Others have played as carebares even longer. No where does is say pirating has to yield a profit. Pirates should be able to pirate in hi-sec if they choose just not profit from it.



This is absolutely true. Freewill reigns! I can do what I want in MY game! Profit is merely a by product of my actions. Such as mining, ratting, incursions, mission running...

If you are doing it solely for profit, you are doing it wrong. You will get bored of it. You will be forcing yourself to grind away. This is a game first and foremost.

The only thing you should actually do for profit and profit alone, is ransom! (when talking ship vs ship)

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#468 - 2013-03-23 16:39:41 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Danks wrote:
If you're worried about the time wasted when someone takes away your internet pixels maybe you shouldn't have put that time into your internet pixels in the first place.

Same should hold true for worrying over making a profit when you gank someone.

So there's no reason for any change then. Goodie. That's the second time you come to that conclusion (not counting the fact that you can't articulate a reason why you shouldn't be able to rob people of their valuables for profit, which amounts to the same thing).
Mag's
Azn Empire
#469 - 2013-03-23 16:40:24 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:
Mag's wrote:

That case involved real life violence, hence why it ended up in court.


No no, not that one. That was like.. 5 years ago? No, I read about it when I was in Australia, so that must have been around 2010-ish. It never got any huge attention I suppose. The only reason why I still remember parts of it was because it never lead to RL-violence. The original owner just sued the digital thief to court.
Citation needed.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#470 - 2013-03-23 16:44:36 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

why should you?

I don't know if you noticed but good and evil are a big part of the game...

... From recent to the beginning.

Hi-Sec isn't immune. Play smart you live, play stupid you die penniless while padding some scammer or gankers bank account.


Lol good and evil? not really just different points of views and play styles. I see hi-sec as a more secure space. Should you be able to gank people in this secure space? You bet. Should it come at a higher price? Absolutely. Null/low dont have Concord for a reason.

As it is now there is imbalance between the value of some ships you have to fit for missions not pvp and the cost it requires to destroy those ships in hi-sec. This gap should remain as for the less secure spaces like low/null but should be shortened for what is suppose to be the higher safety of hi-sec.

Same concept and change that was done for the barges.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#471 - 2013-03-23 16:46:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Danks wrote:
If you're worried about the time wasted when someone takes away your internet pixels maybe you shouldn't have put that time into your internet pixels in the first place.

Same should hold true for worrying over making a profit when you gank someone.

So there's no reason for any change then. Goodie. That's the second time you come to that conclusion (not counting the fact that you can't articulate a reason why you shouldn't be able to rob people of their valuables for profit, which amounts to the same thing).

Sure there is just as they made the change for the barges. Hope this helped you understand it better.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#472 - 2013-03-23 16:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Lol good and evil? not really just different points of views and play styles. I see hi-sec as a more secure space. Should you be able to gank people in this secure space? You bet. Should it come at a higher price? Absolutely. Null/low dont have Concord for a reason.

As it is now there is imbalance between the value of some ships you have to fit for missions not pvp and the cost it requires to destroy those ships in hi-sec. This gap should remain as for the less secure spaces like low/null but should be shortened for what is suppose to be the higher safety of hi-sec.

Same concept and change that was done for the barges.

The cost of ganking is already higher in highsec, if you gank in lowsec or nullsec Concord don't roll up and instapwn your ship. In highsec your ship is a guaranteed loss, ergo you make less profit from ganking.

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Dash Bishop
Doomheim
#473 - 2013-03-23 16:48:14 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
What is everyones opinion?


Should ganking be profitable? Yes.

After reading most of the arguments in this thread, I have to agree with Tippia and others. The OP hasn't presented any actual defense of Soundwave's quote, which was taken out of context anyway as far as I can tell. After reading some of the OP's other posts, it's pretty clear that he is anti-EVE or pro-carebear. Which is the same thing.

EVE = Everybody vs Everybody.

This is the ultimate sandbox MMO. In theme park games, obtaining shiny gear is the pinnacle for PvEers. Ooooooh look, he has Uber Gauntlets of Flaming Death!!!!! That's fine, you can still do that in EVE and fit your blinged out faction ship with officer mods if that's your thing. But that shouldn't take away from the guy who wants to PvP and hunt your ass down to take everything you worked for.

This isn't WoW where you get to visit Ye Olde Armor Shoppe and fix your shiny gear.

Caldari Militia ☜✫☞
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#474 - 2013-03-23 16:48:14 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

why should you?

I don't know if you noticed but good and evil are a big part of the game...

... From recent to the beginning.

Hi-Sec isn't immune. Play smart you live, play stupid you die penniless while padding some scammer or gankers bank account.


Lol good and evil? not really just different points of views and play styles. I see hi-sec as a more secure space. Should you be able to gank people in this secure space? You bet. Should it come at a higher price? Absolutely. Null/low dont have Concord for a reason.

As it is now there is imbalance between the value of some ships you have to fit for missions not pvp and the cost it requires to destroy those ships in hi-sec. This gap should remain as for the less secure spaces like low/null but should be shortened for what is suppose to be the higher safety of hi-sec.

Same concept and change that was done for the barges.



You should petition to have ships made specifically for certain areas. Oh wait, they did when they changed the barges tank ability. Not to mention they introduced the venture for that specific reason!

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#475 - 2013-03-23 16:49:14 UTC
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

why should you?


Because we have been playing as pirates for a decade.

Others have played as carebares even longer. No where does is say pirating has to yield a profit. Pirates should be able to pirate in hi-sec if they choose just not profit from it.


Then they arnt pirates.

pi·rate (prt)

One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.

Also carebears have not played longer than pirates because pirates have been in EVE from day one and advertised from the very start.

What you want are called terrorists.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#476 - 2013-03-23 16:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Sure there is just as they made the change for the barges.
So in other words, there's no reason for any kind of change even remotely like what you're suggesting, since the barge change was not a matter of profitability. Goodie.

That makes it three times you've come to that conclusion and roughly half a billion times you haven't been able to provide a reason for the change you're suggesting. We can thus safely conclude that your “should”-claim is nonsense; that you don't believe in it yourself; that there's no “should” about it; and that you're just stalling to try to look less like you lost the argument on page one.

Quote:
Should you be able to gank people in this secure space? You bet. Should it come at a higher price? Absolutely.
…four times, sorry.

Quote:
As it is now there is imbalance between the value of some ships you have to fit for missions not pvp and the cost it requires to destroy those ships in hi-sec.
No, there really isn't, since cheap-as-chips ships killing more expensive ones is balance; since the value of the ship is pretty much irrelevant for the ability to kill it; and since the profit for killing the ship is entirely in the hands of the ship owner. If he wants to make it unprofitable to kill him, he already can. No change needed.

Quote:
Same concept and change that was done for the barges.
The change that was done to barges was done to give unfitted ships a few more seconds to get away before they died. It had nothing to do with them being less profitable to gank or making their “gankability” match their value.

…so… five times?
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#477 - 2013-03-23 16:51:35 UTC
Tippia, I hope its more of a unwillingness or a refusal to accept someone else valid points of views more then a reading comprehension issue.

I have sated my opinion and point of view clearly and stated reason's for those. Should you have any further questions please take the time and perhaps read them again.

Hope this helps you.

Have a nice day.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#478 - 2013-03-23 16:53:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

why should you?


Because we have been playing as pirates for a decade.

Others have played as carebares even longer. No where does is say pirating has to yield a profit. Pirates should be able to pirate in hi-sec if they choose just not profit from it.


Then they arnt pirates.

pi·rate (prt)

One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.

Also carebears have not played longer than pirates because pirates have been in EVE from day one and advertised from the very start.

What you want are called terrorists.


No what I want is balance.
Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#479 - 2013-03-23 16:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Singulis Pacifica
Mag's wrote:


Citation needed.


Yup, and sadly, I can't give it anymore. Which in your terms would mean that it simply didn't happen. And that's fair. All I know is what I can remember and when I read it. And the event afterwards in which my colleague tripped over a carpet and spilt coffee over my shirt. I then quipped to sue her as well as it seems everyone does referring to the article.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of any governmental interference. I'm just saying that we may not even have this discussion anymore in about 20-30 years or something as new governmental laws in digital property rights are implemented worldwide.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#480 - 2013-03-23 16:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
Tippia, I hope its more of a unwillingness or a refusal to accept someone else valid points of views more then a reading comprehension issue.

I have sated my opinion and point of view clearly and stated reason's for those. Should you have any further questions please take the time and perhaps read them again.

Hope this helps you.

Have a nice day.


Pot meet kettle.

By the way, you still haven't answered the burning question, in fact you've taken such a circuitous route around it that politicians are jealous of your ability to avoid answering.

Why shouldn't you be able to rob people of their valuables for profit?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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