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Torps and Cruise Missiles... do they need a boost?

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1 - 2013-03-18 17:05:02 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
I am asking eve GD (well eve ships and mods now) about their various opinions regarding Torps and Cruise Missiles...

What are their strengths?

Where do they lack that special sauce...

If they were to be boosted then what would be the affects on their ships like Stealth bombers and ravens?

I want to get a community perspective before submitting a formal thread in Features and Ideas.

Personally I feel that the dps is too low on cruise missiles for them to be an effective alternative to using turrets.

I don’t think the lack of insta damage is a bad thing as we all saw how powerful HML’s used to be. (and still are on speical ships)

So for me I would think something like a base damage increase would help them out greatly… Perhaps even reducing the flight time and increasing the velocity would help with the insta damage problem.

As for torps I am not too sure how to fix them… if you reduce ex velocity and ex radius too much this would make them way to useful on Stealth bombers… (perhaps a reduction in the skill for stealth bombers would be needed)

Furthermore the flight time is too low on torps. I would think and this is just me but a non faction tech I torp should fly out to around 40km with skills at 5 on an unbonused ship.

Then again I am not sure if CCP still is thinking about making te/tc/td work for missiles in general and we would also have to take into account any changes that they could bring to the table…

So GD community what do you feel the changes if at all should be…

Also in before… Wrong forum… and the usual DIAF from the trolls…Roll

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-03-18 17:11:46 UTC
8 launcher slots would be nice.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#3 - 2013-03-18 17:20:15 UTC
EvEa Deva wrote:
8 launcher slots would be nice.


on the raven?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Alara IonStorm
#4 - 2013-03-18 17:56:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
7th Launcher turret on the Raven and moving 1 low to a mid might just do it.

Bumping up BS Scan Res to 140-170 Avg would go a ways, CNR has 132 while the Raven has 104 which is a very slow lock. Also the MWD cap suckage for Battleships is a little high, it caps it out in 2min at max skill with no hardeners.

[Raven, New]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

Something like this would be deadly with 130-140 Scan Res and a MWD that lasts a few min.
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#5 - 2013-03-18 18:35:40 UTC
41km effective range: on faction torps, with 2x velocity T2 rigs, on a Golem, with +5 implant on flight time and +6 implant on velocity is really really small (IMHO)
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-03-18 19:00:34 UTC
Stealth bombers are already very powerful, and perform their intended role well. As such, a buff to torpedos themselves, would be very problematic, and would throw stealth bombers out of balance. Overall, torpedos themselves are pretty decent, the guided missile precision skill coming to affect them was definitely a large boon, but the raven, and the new all missile typhoon could use a little love on the accuracy of torpedos, as while any short range weapon battleship can eat cruisers provided they aren't being orbitted, and even then sometimes they can, torpedos are pretty hopeless vs things smaller than a battlecruiser, or smaller than a battleship if you use range.

Cruise missiles though, they go a LONG ways, and they hit decently, but the damage is pretty bad. "Hurr durr, but long range weaponry is supposed to do less damage". Not this much less. beam lasers, artillery, and even large rails all do significantly more damage.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#7 - 2013-03-18 19:10:52 UTC
Torpedos got love in the form of finally being effected by Guided Missile Precision skill.

Cruise missiles are long range snipe weapons. Their damage is inline with the other Long range ammo. I believe long range ammo variants need a damage buff accross the board.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#8 - 2013-03-18 20:06:16 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Torpedos got love in the form of finally being effected by Guided Missile Precision skill.



I was unaware of this... when did this change?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#9 - 2013-03-18 20:07:32 UTC
Thread moved to Ships & Modules. Please do not purposefully post in the wrong subforum.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2013-03-18 20:10:45 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Torpedos got love in the form of finally being effected by Guided Missile Precision skill.



I was unaware of this... when did this change?


December.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#11 - 2013-03-18 20:25:56 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Torpedos got love in the form of finally being effected by Guided Missile Precision skill.



I was unaware of this... when did this change?


December.


sick!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#12 - 2013-03-18 20:27:13 UTC
Post deleted for discussion of moderation. Please keep discussion on topic.

If you have an issue with how moderation is performed, or wish to see certain moderation actions taken, please use the Report feature. You may also petition to get your message directly to the CCP community team.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#13 - 2013-03-18 20:39:50 UTC
so it seems torps are ok now... just cruise need some love and and hulls... might be less needed then i had thought.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Alara IonStorm
#14 - 2013-03-18 20:50:32 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
so it seems torps are ok now... just cruise need some love and and hulls... might be less needed then i had thought.

Well when people talk about Cruise Missiles for PvP they are essentially talking about the Raven for the most part. Cruise Missiles on a raven actually move 50% faster then Heavies on a Drake so the addition of an extra launcher to the same amount as say a Geddon or Mega would leave the Raven with pretty strong and accurate Cruise DPS, after that it is all about solving the issues with the hull which is mostly the low to mid slot ratio.

604 DPS Faction
735 DPS Fury
525 DPS Precision

Cruise Missiles IMO are fine, all they need is a ship suitable for launching them. Of course Faction Torps would go up to 1100 DPS as well, not a bad side effect. Big smile
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-03-18 20:57:37 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Torpedos got love in the form of finally being effected by Guided Missile Precision skill.



I was unaware of this... when did this change?


December.


sick!


Yeah, and they increase Rage Torp exp radius for good measure. So now, you can train skill to counteract the nerf.Lol

Why Rage torps needed bigger exp radius than they had? I'll never know...Roll
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#16 - 2013-03-18 21:11:47 UTC
sabre906 wrote:

Yeah, and they increase Rage Torp exp radius for good measure. So now, you can train skill to counteract the nerf.Lol

Why Rage torps needed bigger exp radius than they had? I'll never know...Roll



In the other thread, someone said that you only need lvl 3 to counteract the "nerf," and lvls 4 and 5 were just a bonus.

Some first-hand PI tips
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#17 - 2013-03-19 01:15:06 UTC
Kodama Ikari wrote:
sabre906 wrote:

Yeah, and they increase Rage Torp exp radius for good measure. So now, you can train skill to counteract the nerf.Lol

Why Rage torps needed bigger exp radius than they had? I'll never know...Roll



In the other thread, someone said that you only need lvl 3 to counteract the "nerf," and lvls 4 and 5 were just a bonus.

only lvl 5 offers a bonus, also their range is still not being taken onto account, they have the very same range than HAM which is idiotic on itself given the size difference.

torps are strong on bombers because they have a LOT of bonus to counter the natural weakness of said weapons, if torps and cruise were buffed, all you would have to do is to lower the bonus on the stealth bombers to keep in like, so thats not such a big issue.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-03-19 01:27:28 UTC
torps are largely fine, cruise missiles are worse than useless.

There is no Bob.

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Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-03-19 08:37:58 UTC
In PvE an 8th launcher on the Raven birds would be.....insane if fit and flown properly.

Cruises are ok for that purpose [PvE], they're just not a Machariel - Should that really be the benchmark anyway, since it's pretty obvious the thing is an aberration compared to every other hull out there.

In PvP I don't think it's so much the system as the things sporting it, even although it has inherit weaknesses next to guns.


It's a tricky weapon system to balance in imo.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-03-19 08:38:54 UTC
Torps are only fine when fired from a stealth bomber, mainly to do with range and explosion radius bonus on the hull.

They are okay on a Golem and for shooting buildings, so unless extremly bonused by the hull or bunker/pos busting fleets they're lacking.

I think they deserved to be looked in to.

Cruise missiles seem only useull in PvE so should be looked at as well.

as does their Capital counter parts.

I've heard some people propose to entirely remove them (capital missiles), but I'd consider that a weak option.

There should be a way to get those weapons usefull and competitive or they should die trying :)
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