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Most efficient level 4 missions shipS? Opinions needed
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Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#21 - 2011-10-16 06:17:47 UTC
Souris Blanche wrote:
Alaik wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Tengu is (snip) and very good against jamming Guristas.


How exactly? I hated guristas in my tengu, as much as I hate being perma jammed in any ship. Are you using FoF missiles to consider it "very good" against Guristas? I left Caldari space due to the jamming, but if there's something that's actually viable to let me return I would love to know about it! =)


Any ship is going to get jammed by Guristas, and FOF are never "very good" on any ship. Missioning in Caldari space, where you get a lot of mission vs rats that jam has been a PITA since CCP changed ECM mechanics. The simplest ways to deal with NPCs that jam is to decrease the effect that getting jammed causes by 1.) Mission with friends and/or corpmates, or 2.) Dual-box two PVE combat ships (Dual Tengus, Tengu/Mach, Dual Machs, etc).



Or 3 know what ships are going to jam you up front and make them your number 1 priority.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Alaik
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#22 - 2011-10-16 08:25:49 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:
Souris Blanche wrote:
Alaik wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Tengu is (snip) and very good against jamming Guristas.


How exactly? I hated guristas in my tengu, as much as I hate being perma jammed in any ship. Are you using FoF missiles to consider it "very good" against Guristas? I left Caldari space due to the jamming, but if there's something that's actually viable to let me return I would love to know about it! =)


Any ship is going to get jammed by Guristas, and FOF are never "very good" on any ship. Missioning in Caldari space, where you get a lot of mission vs rats that jam has been a PITA since CCP changed ECM mechanics. The simplest ways to deal with NPCs that jam is to decrease the effect that getting jammed causes by 1.) Mission with friends and/or corpmates, or 2.) Dual-box two PVE combat ships (Dual Tengus, Tengu/Mach, Dual Machs, etc).



Or 3 know what ships are going to jam you up front and make them your number 1 priority.


It's really not that easy when you are perma jammed. =/ I left Caldari space in disgust after having completion times on some missions increasing by 200% at least, particularly on the Blockade where the whole reinforcement wave can jam you with their battleships.

Matar/Amarr rats are much easier to deal with for missile ships. Serpentis is kinda annoying too with the damps meaning you can only target close targets, but still, at least you can fly into range and target rather than just hoping the jam ends soon. =)
Songbird
#23 - 2011-10-16 14:59:13 UTC
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
Machariel.

Tengu/CNR/Sentry+Rail Domi are also all somewhat competitive if you have more fun flying one of them.


Am I missing something ?

Rail Domi equalized with the CNR?
Dannyy
Gilded Goose Brokerage
#24 - 2011-10-16 15:42:17 UTC
Songbird wrote:
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
Machariel.

Tengu/CNR/Sentry+Rail Domi are also all somewhat competitive if you have more fun flying one of them.


Am I missing something ?

Rail Domi equalized with the CNR?


T2 sentries
Nor Tzestu
Dos Pollos Hermanos
#25 - 2011-10-16 22:40:35 UTC
Songbird wrote:
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
Machariel.

Tengu/CNR/Sentry+Rail Domi are also all somewhat competitive if you have more fun flying one of them.


Am I missing something ?

Rail Domi equalized with the CNR?


450 dps with t2 sentrys and a single sentry rig, assuming 5's in the skills.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#26 - 2011-10-16 23:17:16 UTC
Alaik wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Souris Blanche wrote:
Alaik wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Tengu is (snip) and very good against jamming Guristas.


How exactly? I hated guristas in my tengu, as much as I hate being perma jammed in any ship. Are you using FoF missiles to consider it "very good" against Guristas? I left Caldari space due to the jamming, but if there's something that's actually viable to let me return I would love to know about it! =)


Any ship is going to get jammed by Guristas, and FOF are never "very good" on any ship. Missioning in Caldari space, where you get a lot of mission vs rats that jam has been a PITA since CCP changed ECM mechanics. The simplest ways to deal with NPCs that jam is to decrease the effect that getting jammed causes by 1.) Mission with friends and/or corpmates, or 2.) Dual-box two PVE combat ships (Dual Tengus, Tengu/Mach, Dual Machs, etc).



Or 3 know what ships are going to jam you up front and make them your number 1 priority.


It's really not that easy when you are perma jammed. =/ I left Caldari space in disgust after having completion times on some missions increasing by 200% at least, particularly on the Blockade where the whole reinforcement wave can jam you with their battleships.

Matar/Amarr rats are much easier to deal with for missile ships. Serpentis is kinda annoying too with the damps meaning you can only target close targets, but still, at least you can fly into range and target rather than just hoping the jam ends soon. =)

All I can say to that is learn to drone

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Songbird
#27 - 2011-10-16 23:43:03 UTC
Sentry make you NOT MOVE. I don't care if they gave you 800 DPS they're a bad solution for whatever the hell.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#28 - 2011-10-17 00:38:54 UTC
Songbird wrote:
Sentry make you NOT MOVE. I don't care if they gave you 800 DPS they're a bad solution for whatever the hell.



Then use a set of Heavys and Lights. There are a fair number of drone boats that can handle that for you.

1.) Rattle Snake if your using missiles this is the one for you or number 2
2.) Glia
3.) Ishtar
4.) Dominix or Navy Dominix
5.) Megathron or Navy Megatron
6.) Typhoon or Fleet Typhoon
7.) Navy Armageddon

And there mite be others that I missed too.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Songbird
#29 - 2011-10-17 02:45:30 UTC
2 kinds of people : People that have flown Mach and that have not.

The ones with the mach go in every mission like they own it, they smack everything down , they are like freaking berserkers that you can't face and live, every shot a kill, every movement a sprint, every enemy a wreck. If you carry heavy drones you pick em up because you're much faster than them, if you carry light drones they don't get to reach the frigate because you've already shot it and are already moving on to cruisers. If you carry sentries you drop em off , like kids at school, clean the field and while shooting at the last ship you head to the sentries and pick em up, not that shooting up a BS takes that long but with 1500m/s speed you can afford to move around more than gila and ishtar together.

The people that fly other BS's and T3's, stay there and stay in 1 place and spend a ton of energy on tanking or dance around and slowly wear down their enemies, every mission a struggle, every ship kill an achievement. And drone ship , well they're just pathetic.

Mach is the one and only - the alpha and the omega, it's like all 4 raiders of the apocalypse in 1 deadly package.

Mach has become Death.
Theaisa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-10-17 03:09:33 UTC
Songbird wrote:
2 kinds of people : People that have flown Mach and that have not.

The ones with the mach go in every mission like they own it, they smack everything down , they are like freaking berserkers that you can't face and live, every shot a kill, every movement a sprint, every enemy a wreck. If you carry heavy drones you pick em up because you're much faster than them, if you carry light drones they don't get to reach the frigate because you've already shot it and are already moving on to cruisers. If you carry sentries you drop em off , like kids at school, clean the field and while shooting at the last ship you head to the sentries and pick em up, not that shooting up a BS takes that long but with 1500m/s speed you can afford to move around more than gila and ishtar together.

The people that fly other BS's and T3's, stay there and stay in 1 place and spend a ton of energy on tanking or dance around and slowly wear down their enemies, every mission a struggle, every ship kill an achievement. And drone ship , well they're just pathetic.

Mach is the one and only - the alpha and the omega, it's like all 4 raiders of the apocalypse in 1 deadly package.

Mach has become Death.


You've convinced me. I'm getting a Mach. LOL! Lol
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-10-17 03:28:29 UTC
The other option, if you have Marauder 4-5 trained up is the Vargur. Slightly less DPS and speed than the Mach, but thanks to it's slot lay out, better tracking and fall-off.

With an AB fit and a medium or large SB, 2 TCs with optimal range, a T2 damage rig and a fall-off rig, you can get about 90km or so falloff with Barrage. And up to about 900 DPS too with that ammo, or about 1400 with T2 hammerheads and Hail.

Will make short work of ANY Angel mission.

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Airu Naari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-10-17 13:17:33 UTC
I agree with Rip Minner and Spineker. Having used extensively these ships to do L4s: Tengu, Golem, Nightmare, Navy Armageddon, Dominix, Ishtar (and some more but these are my favs) I can say that when it comes to efficiency at a lower price - Navy Armageddon wins in many cases. But If I am to be completely honest, no matter how much I hate Caldari ships - Tengu is the best overall and worth investing in (both ISK and time to train for skills). If you do want to do missions AFK, try the Ishtar.
Orlacc
#33 - 2011-10-17 16:32:10 UTC
Songbird wrote:
2 kinds of people : People that have flown Mach and that have not.

The ones with the mach go in every mission like they own it, they smack everything down , they are like freaking berserkers that you can't face and live, every shot a kill, every movement a sprint, every enemy a wreck. If you carry heavy drones you pick em up because you're much faster than them, if you carry light drones they don't get to reach the frigate because you've already shot it and are already moving on to cruisers. If you carry sentries you drop em off , like kids at school, clean the field and while shooting at the last ship you head to the sentries and pick em up, not that shooting up a BS takes that long but with 1500m/s speed you can afford to move around more than gila and ishtar together.

The people that fly other BS's and T3's, stay there and stay in 1 place and spend a ton of energy on tanking or dance around and slowly wear down their enemies, every mission a struggle, every ship kill an achievement. And drone ship , well they're just pathetic.

Mach is the one and only - the alpha and the omega, it's like all 4 raiders of the apocalypse in 1 deadly package.

Mach has become Death.



QFT

A bit dramatic but I agree. These "which BS is best?" threads are dumb because if you don't have skills they all can suck.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Firebolt145
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#34 - 2011-10-17 17:58:57 UTC
Songbird wrote:
2 kinds of people : People that have flown Mach and that have not.

The ones with the mach go in every mission like they own it, they smack everything down , they are like freaking berserkers that you can't face and live, every shot a kill, every movement a sprint, every enemy a wreck. If you carry heavy drones you pick em up because you're much faster than them, if you carry light drones they don't get to reach the frigate because you've already shot it and are already moving on to cruisers. If you carry sentries you drop em off , like kids at school, clean the field and while shooting at the last ship you head to the sentries and pick em up, not that shooting up a BS takes that long but with 1500m/s speed you can afford to move around more than gila and ishtar together.

The people that fly other BS's and T3's, stay there and stay in 1 place and spend a ton of energy on tanking or dance around and slowly wear down their enemies, every mission a struggle, every ship kill an achievement. And drone ship , well they're just pathetic.

Mach is the one and only - the alpha and the omega, it's like all 4 raiders of the apocalypse in 1 deadly package.

Mach has become Death.

Best post I've read. I'm bookmarking this to forward to any one who asks about missioning ships in the future.
Spineker
#35 - 2011-10-18 02:35:40 UTC
Only problem with a Mach is I don't like to go to lowsec with a BS. Just a big ass target, Tengu I go in blitz the thing and leave. Quick over and more Isk for momma. Granted I don't have one but I damn sure would not go in a Golem to lowsec when I have a tengu that can escape or fight if needed.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-10-18 04:36:45 UTC
Songbird wrote:
2 kinds of people : People that have flown Mach and that have not.

The ones with the mach go in every mission like they own it, they smack everything down , they are like freaking berserkers that you can't face and live, every shot a kill, every movement a sprint, every enemy a wreck. If you carry heavy drones you pick em up because you're much faster than them, if you carry light drones they don't get to reach the frigate because you've already shot it and are already moving on to cruisers. If you carry sentries you drop em off , like kids at school, clean the field and while shooting at the last ship you head to the sentries and pick em up, not that shooting up a BS takes that long but with 1500m/s speed you can afford to move around more than gila and ishtar together.

The people that fly other BS's and T3's, stay there and stay in 1 place and spend a ton of energy on tanking or dance around and slowly wear down their enemies, every mission a struggle, every ship kill an achievement. And drone ship , well they're just pathetic.

Mach is the one and only - the alpha and the omega, it's like all 4 raiders of the apocalypse in 1 deadly package.

Mach has become Death.


I fly a mach but I have to say... With all the changes to ships in flux, due to CCP's "revamping" efforts - a lot of this is wait and see.

I've a hunch we're liable to see a bit more balancing than just hybrids as they touch the ships up.

We also have the fact that different folks use different styles of play and their chosen style will fit a given type of ship over others - mach = move and kill. Drone boats = pull, tank and let the drones do the dirty work... Each ship has a style that fits it so "best' is best based up a players comfort level with a given hull.
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-10-18 16:40:23 UTC
lately i've got around flying golem/vargur/mach, from being a cnr hardcore fan, and gotta say, they're good.
Missile ships still win on big targets, though. I currently run mach+cnr, actually. Mach usually takes down cruisers/frigates, allowing two sets of sentries.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-10-24 06:55:17 UTC
Songbird wrote:
2 kinds of people : People that have flown Mach and that have not.

The ones with the mach go in every mission like they own it, they smack everything down , they are like freaking berserkers that you can't face and live, every shot a kill, every movement a sprint, every enemy a wreck. If you carry heavy drones you pick em up because you're much faster than them, if you carry light drones they don't get to reach the frigate because you've already shot it and are already moving on to cruisers. If you carry sentries you drop em off , like kids at school, clean the field and while shooting at the last ship you head to the sentries and pick em up, not that shooting up a BS takes that long but with 1500m/s speed you can afford to move around more than gila and ishtar together.

The people that fly other BS's and T3's, stay there and stay in 1 place and spend a ton of energy on tanking or dance around and slowly wear down their enemies, every mission a struggle, every ship kill an achievement. And drone ship , well they're just pathetic.

Mach is the one and only - the alpha and the omega, it's like all 4 raiders of the apocalypse in 1 deadly package.

Mach has become Death.

Lord now that's what I was going to say...

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Jaketh Ivanes
Rigorous Rivals
#39 - 2011-10-24 13:49:16 UTC
When I get a mission against Gurista or Angels, I usually fit an Apoc with AC's and Cruise missiles. 8 AC's with high explosive damage is way better than lasers Smile. Though on a Paladin I can imagine it's even worse.

So if you don't want to train for Minmatar ships or use Caldari ships, get the AC skill is the best suggestion I can give.
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#40 - 2011-10-24 14:06:11 UTC
Not a lot of love in this thread for the CNR which is kind of surprising. FoM I suppose. It wasn't all that long ago that the CNR, Tengu & Mach were at the top of the heap.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
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