These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

And you thought HI was too safe???? Welcome to Thunderdome™

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#441 - 2013-03-31 02:21:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:


Do you even live in null? If so do you play with your eyes open or are they shut like your mind on anyone that disagrees with you.

The sea of blue in null is not imaginary just like the response to potential war that was going to happen and replaced with war games.


Its clear you dont live in null.


Can attest to that, seeing him (can't miss the name) in 1.0 space. My first impression was -- bot.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#442 - 2013-03-31 02:35:33 UTC
This thread makes me want to stab my eyes out.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#443 - 2013-03-31 02:40:35 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
This thread makes me want to stab my eyes out.


Monks tend to be blind anyway.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#444 - 2013-03-31 05:27:01 UTC
Degren wrote:
Is this DarthNefarius's first threadnaught?

10/10


No I've had a few others mostly due to Incursions & WH stuff .... not NULL SEC I think I may have hit a chord here though
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#445 - 2013-03-31 05:32:29 UTC
Eezee Gonozal wrote:

I always love reading posts about how I get 10+ Plexes every month for my accounts. I could tell you how not even directors get all their accounts paid for, but in your alternate reality, where the CSM is actually blocking CCP from doing anything about moons, we all live in giant villas paid for by RMT.


Are you a Goon director? I heard they all live in Gallente Pleasure Dome/Villas in POS's in DELVE Lol
The Goon dregs which I suspect you are live in poverty but at least you get free ships thnx to well TECH funded SRP's providing infinite Drakes PirateBear
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#446 - 2013-03-31 06:14:56 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Eezee Gonozal wrote:

I always love reading posts about how I get 10+ Plexes every month for my accounts. I could tell you how not even directors get all their accounts paid for, but in your alternate reality, where the CSM is actually blocking CCP from doing anything about moons, we all live in giant villas paid for by RMT.


Are you a Goon director? I heard they all live in Gallente Pleasure Dome/Villas in POS's in DELVE Lol
The Goon dregs which I suspect you are live in poverty but at least you get free ships thnx to well TECH funded SRP's providing infinite Drakes PirateBear


5 Drakes per member, per month. Hooray Infinity!

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#447 - 2013-03-31 06:21:40 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Eezee Gonozal wrote:

I always love reading posts about how I get 10+ Plexes every month for my accounts. I could tell you how not even directors get all their accounts paid for, but in your alternate reality, where the CSM is actually blocking CCP from doing anything about moons, we all live in giant villas paid for by RMT.


Are you a Goon director? I heard they all live in Gallente Pleasure Dome/Villas in POS's in DELVE Lol
The Goon dregs which I suspect you are live in poverty but at least you get free ships thnx to well TECH funded SRP's providing infinite Drakes PirateBear


5 Drakes per member, per month. Hooray Infinity!


To infinity & beyond Lol
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#448 - 2013-03-31 07:50:19 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Are you a Goon director? I heard they all live in Gallente Pleasure Dome/Villas in POS's in DELVE Lol
The Goon dregs which I suspect you are live in poverty but at least you get free ships thnx to well TECH funded SRP's providing infinite Drakes PirateBear


us directors are mostly rich as hell because we scam people like you, pocketing alliance isk isn't really that lucrative in comparison

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#449 - 2013-03-31 07:59:57 UTC
imagine that, not needing to hoard a ton of isk and assets simply because anytime you need isk, there are plenty of chumps lined up to hand it to you with glee

well it owns

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#450 - 2013-04-01 18:34:35 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Passive and active streams of income have to many variables to be comparable and competitive (you keep saying it isn't comparable, which goes against the thread because the origination of it was based on comparison!), bar the fact that they both have a "rate".


Nope. Started with a statement to the effect: "Nobody can compete with Tech moon income."

The income from Stocks is competitive with the income from Bonds despite the fact that Stocks and Bonds are so different as to be incomparable.

The income a group can earn from Ice mining is competitive with the income from Tech moons, because a group of similar numbers can earn similar incomes. The fact that one may require more effort than the other is irrelevant.

The goal is: "Earn X ISK for the Alliance to support SRP/whatever other alliance expenses." Both income sources can fulfill that goal. Therefore, people without Tech can compete with people who have Tech.

In fact, we have proof of exactly that happening. The DRF (who owned no Tech) stomped the Northern Coalition (who owned most of the Tech) out of their space. Proving, empirically, that you can compete with Tech income without Tech.



So Thunderdome is being supported by ice miners because people don't want to fight over those ice belts. Got it.

Guess I had it wrong when I read Mittani talking about any force trying to get into tech moon mining would be hellcamped.

Clearly ice belts, which are strewn across all of Eve, are such indicators as to why Sov and Tech moons are such a big hit.

Oh wait, maybe its because people CAN do both at the same time! You should look into the difference between passive and active.

Since you like using stocks and bonds... you do realize you can buy a savings bond and need to wait for it to mature to get the most out of it while playing the stock market right?

At the same time, which would give you an even GREATER increase, albeit RISK, than if you just had those bonds waiting to mature. But you need to be in contact with that same stock market, or someone on your behalf to do the necessary work, while you sit back and wait for those bonds.

Like I said before; bad example.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#451 - 2013-04-01 22:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Murk Paradox wrote:
So Thunderdome is being supported by ice miners because people don't want to fight over those ice belts. Got it.


Nobody said anything of the sort.

Quote:
Guess I had it wrong when I read Mittani talking about any force trying to get into tech moon mining would be hellcamped.


Why wouldn't people want to defend their income sources?

Quote:
Oh wait, maybe its because people CAN do both at the same time! You should look into the difference between passive and active.


Show me how you can mine Ice at the same time you're hellcamping someone in reprisal for an attack on a Tech moon with the same account?

If someone's using more accounts than you are to make money, of course they're going to have an advantage. But that advantage has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so we assume account number parity. That is to say: If someone's spending time on one account defending a Tech moon, that is time that he cannot spend on that account mining Ice (this is obviously true, and it's ridiculous that I keep having to spell it out for you).

Quote:
Since you like using stocks and bonds... you do realize you can buy a savings bond and need to wait for it to mature to get the most out of it while playing the stock market right?


No, you actually can't do both at the same time with the same resources. Purchasing a Bond means that you cannot use the same money, at the same time, to purchase stocks.

In EVE terms, Defending a Tech moon means that you cannot use the same account, at the same time, to Mine Ice.


Again, all it takes to compete with the combined income from all Tech moons is a group of a similar size to Goonswarm willing to contribute 250m/month to the cause. If you don't have similar numbers, of course each member is going to have to contribute more (again, obvious. Larger groups have advantages over smaller groups because 1+1 > 1).

And, as Empirical Proof that non-Tech owners can kick the pants off of compete with Tech owners, we have the DRF's conquest and eviction of the Northern Coalition.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#452 - 2013-04-01 23:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
Oh wait, maybe its because people CAN do both at the same time! You should look into the difference between passive and active.
The only difference is that one requires manhours to produce ISK whereas the other requires manhours to produce ISK. Oh wait. That's not a difference.

The only difference is that one is assumed to be passive when it really isn't. Beyond that, they are comparable, competitive, and the complaint that they aren't has on multiple occasions proven to be false. Believing it today, with all there is to show the exact opposite, is ridiculously ignorant.

Actually, there's a second difference too: the supposedly (but not actually) “passive” income is actually better described as static, whereas the “active” can be dynamically scaled to fit your needs and can trivially outpace the static income if that's what you want.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#453 - 2013-04-01 23:45:54 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Show me how you can mine Ice at the same time you're hellcamping someone in reprisal for an attack on a Tech moon with the same account?


With ISBox greenlighted as an acceptable macro program, and block alliances rolling not only in ISK but RL cash (blobbies), they aren't going to multibox?

A guy made a complaint in the suggestions forum as he saw about 80 bot named pilots in an icefield.

People don't throw that much ISK (500mil x 80...yeah it's funded by someone with a-l-o-t of capital) but ISK farmers. And with PLEX players don't have to buy it.

It's this type of stuff that CCP has to watch out for, because on paper it looks cool that players can be Standard Oil. In practice it's why Standard Oil lost it's monopoly: it's not good for business overall, it stagnates it. Just look at the game and what it turned it into. The ankle biters and mercs being but the PvP (which these blocs help fuel even), and those blue alliances growing by the day.

When I played EvE back in 2010 null was being fought over. Small/medium sized alliances raced to get a piece of the pie. Null had the riches to make it worthwhile.

Today? The blue donut exists.

Do you remember back in 2008 how Goons began and why the blob fleet came into existence (you were new and none skilled). Five years later, you guys turned into the next BoB.

And history tends to repeat itself (especially when revolutions are but three meals away).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#454 - 2013-04-01 23:56:02 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
With ISBox greenlighted as an acceptable macro program, and block alliances rolling not only in ISK but RL cash (blobbies), they aren't going to multibox?
…which still won't let them mine ice while defending a tech moon on the same account.

Quote:
When I played EvE back in 2010 null was being fought over. Small/medium sized alliances raced to get a piece of the pie. Null had the riches to make it worthwhile.
…and the only thing that has changed since then is that people assume that it can't be done and that those who know it can have gotten fed up with a sov mechanic that was getting old already back then. In fact, 2010 was an excellent example of the whole “can't compete with tech” argument is bunk.

Quote:
Today? The blue donut exists.
…except that it's, at best, a cheese doodle rather than a doughnut. This isn't something new either.

Quote:
Do you remember back in 2008 how Goons began and why the blob fleet came into existence (you were new and none skilled). Five years later, you guys turned into the next BoB.
2008?! I think you need to check your history…
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#455 - 2013-04-02 02:15:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…which still won't let them mine ice while defending a tech moon on the same account.


...he doesn't have too.

Quote:
…and the only thing that has changed since then is that people assume that it can't be done and that those who know it can have gotten fed up with a sov mechanic that was getting old already back then. In fact, 2010 was an excellent example of the whole “can't compete with tech” argument is bunk.


No, there was a vacuum along the Amarr/Curse border that gave the opportunity (Feb/2010). It was a free-for-all to grab territory, and an opportunity for small/medium sized alliances to get a piece of the pie -- no blue donuts.

Quote:
…except that it's, at best, a cheese doodle rather than a doughnut. This isn't something new either.


It doesn't matter what it looks like at the moment, you know what I meant. You also know that it's PvE in a area designed for PvP (and exists due to resources only). It makes a mockery to a game about 24/7 PvP, just as blobs about "skills matter" (if they don't, just do away with the skills system, it's hypocrisy otherwise).

Quote:
2008?! I think you need to check your history…


The Great War, dear. Same war that the Goons were kicked back to NPC stations, as they were untrained, new and dumb.

And it's about time for another Great War to realign the universe, too.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#456 - 2013-04-02 02:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Ace Uoweme wrote:
...he doesn't have too.


Then the Ice mining alliance has the same opportunity to mine Ice with two accounts to the Tech defender's one. If your complaint is "they make more ISK than me because they work more alts" then that has absolutely nothing to do with Tech.


Quote:
It doesn't matter what it looks like at the moment, you know what I meant. You also know that it's PvE in a area designed for PvP (and exists due to resources only). It makes a mockery to a game about 24/7 PvP, just as blobs about "skills matter" (if they don't, just do away with the skills system, it's hypocrisy otherwise).


So much wrong with that paragraph.

1. Blue Doughnut implies that everyone in Nullsec is blue to each other (and has nothing to do with the converstation at hand). But, just for fun, Let's see if that's true:
HBC and CFC? Not Blue.
HBC and Solar? Not Blue.
Solar and CFC? Not Blue.

Ring around the posey, and nobody's blue. People aren't invading each other (well, except the HBC invading Solar) because there's generally no reason to, and there's the huge obstacle of a truly terrible Sov grind system.

2. There's no such thing as a PvP or PvE-designated area in EVE. You can do both everywhere.

3. It makes no such mockery.

4. SP is not the only (or even most important) element of Skill in EVE.

Quote:
The Great War, dear. Same war that the Goons were kicked back to NPC stations, as they were untrained, new and dumb.

And it's about time for another Great War to realign the universe, too.


So start it. As we've shown, if you get comparable numbers to the GSF working towards the same goal, you can fairly trivially outpace the combined Total Income of All Tech moons.

Remember, Goons were a bunch of Newbies who took down the "too-big-to-fail" BOB.

What's your excuse?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#457 - 2013-04-02 02:43:50 UTC
yes nobody ran large fleets until 2008

yep, nobody ever sieged towers, which dictated sovereignty, with large fleets, they used 20-man gangs to siege them for 10 hours at a time

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#458 - 2013-04-02 02:45:30 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
It doesn't matter what it looks like at the moment, you know what I meant. You also know that it's PvE in a area designed for PvP (and exists due to resources only).


I think we can safely disregard the rest of your post if you subscribe to this idea that gameplay is segregated in such a way when it is not and has never been

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#459 - 2013-04-02 02:51:26 UTC
Goddamned American Capitalist wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Goddamned American Capitalist wrote:
I know, they say they do want it fixed, but I don't see them packing up all of their moon harvesters and ceasing production, do you?


Because like pre-nerf highsec incursions & FW mechanics or the current 150m isk/hour Forsaken Hubs, we'd be stupid to not take advantage of it while it's there. This doesn't mean we don't think it should be changed or don't want it changed


I call bullshit.

You don't want **** changed, if you did you'd do something about it like shooting monuments in Jita until CCP changed it.


"Act like pubbies for change 2013"

All of you saying "Well if you hate it so much why do you continue to reap the rewards" lack a certain level of pragmatism. You knew an incursion nerf was coming down the pipe, did you say "Well ok I guess I had best just stop doing this until CCP fixes it because taking this money would make me dirty." or did you build up to a frenzy to build an isk stockpile before it hit?

If I knew tomorrow that CCP would be removing all meta module drops from the game and only legacy modules would continue to exist, I'd be sitting in an anom with my vindicator and my alt in a noctis this very second, while my Jita alt bought as much stockpile as I could before the hit.

I mean look no further than our last several CSM platforms to see our opinion on the subject, but we'd be fools not to abuse it while it's in the game.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#460 - 2013-04-02 02:52:11 UTC
beyond that ablooblooblooooo goons hellcamp people into their stations when they start sieging their moons, why don't they let others simply take moons from them

gotta say, this thread is p. hilarious

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar