EVE General Discussion

except no hi-sec miner can mine 24 hours a day and if you think a miner makes 340 million in 4 hours you are very sadly mistaken.

Yes and in response to that, yes it is less per hour, than a mack. But as I said that mack cannot mine 24 hours a day. So your comparison is flawed.

Semantics do not change the fact that tech makes Null, the "Why Bother" space, well that the broken Sov and the crappy industry.

All CCP need to do now is make PvP crappier in Null and lets face it local and Sov already do a good job for that.

Only that? I really need to read more on that game. I really though it was MUCH more considering the amount of bitching and moaning we read about those moons around here...

If it's just the tech itself, then yes, that's all.
You can generally make more money by reacting it into something more useful, but at that point, we need to start taking into account some kind of workload (and we really should compare that with T1 manufacturing anyway).

…so simply comparing base material extraction vs. base material extraction is the most straight-forward comparison we can make.

Yes and a super costs more than a POS.

You will notice that this point has as much relevance as the amount a mack mines in an hour, has to how much a permanent AFK POS moon mining operation.

The other day I killed a rat and got a BPO in under a minute worth over 50 million, again this has no relevance, as the amount I make in a day is not calculated at 55 million a minute.

A moon miner, mines 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, nothing else does, so bringing up things that get a higher isk per hour over a short term are completely irrelevant.

…except that I'm not talking about the short-term. I'm talking about something that can happen 7 days a week, 365.25 days a year, because the daily requirement is so low.

Yes, a moon earns 5.2bn a month during its 720 moon-mining-hours of operation.
It requires 360 ore-mining-hours to yield the same result, and the vast majority of that time is also spent AFK.

It is trivial to accumulate those hours during a month, and the triviality of this task is very much relevant to providing a perspective on exactly how much that moon is worth: it's worth about three slightly dim highsec miners.

…just like how a tiny group of miners earn just over 5 billion a month with little or no player interaction.

In other words, it takes a surprisingly small amount of work from a not particularly big group of players to out-earn all tech moons in the game. In the end, 1 moon-hour = ½ miner-hour, and the only question is if you care (not can — because it's trivially easy — just care) to produce the same total work hours… or more, if you want to out-earn that moon.

…and how much does a nullsec grunt earn from a moon mining operation in a month?

The point is that the supposedly insurmountable advantage a nullsec entity gains from owning a tech moon amounts to just that: three miners doing a bit of daily AFK-grinding. That is all. It's actually rather trivial to out-earn a tech moon for any entity that doesn't have one.

The vapid excuse “but tech moons!” only ever translates into “but I don't want to make any effort to earn the same amount of money, no matter how trivial”.

Good God reading that "Thunderdome" idea makes me want to quit.


So, THIS is the end game?


It's time to make all resources FINITE. Everywhere. High, low, null - make it run out. Mine a system naked? No more to mine, for YEARS. Everybody and their brother missioning in a constellation? Sorry the agents have run out of work since the "pirates" got tired of being blown up by mission drakes over and over and they moved out conceding defeat.

Ice in the system? No more, you dried it all up.

23/7 ratters in the system? Gone. NPC pirates should not be so stupid that they keep sending ships to the same belts that keep getting blown up by the same people.

(Let ALL systems and sites be like wormholes: you farm it raw, no more sites).


Let the moon goo run out. You want to suck that moon dry till it caves in so you can build caps galore? Fine, the moons are sucked dry. Come back in a few years.


Does this not sound fair?


Look, ALL warfare in humanity is related to limited resources in one way or another. If anybody, at one point, decided "What would the human race do if resources were limitless?", then Eve Online is THAT answer. Congratulations, we now have the answer of what would happen if all resources on Earth magically sprung into existence: the end of war. Break out the magical unicorn champagne.

But this is not working for a game based on war.

Now, who would be against that?

Would it be all those people screaming "This is a PVP game!!! You can't handle that go back to WoW!!!! Noob! Phag!!! Carebear".

Ok, Leet PVPers, now the onus is on you to prove your e-peens: it's time to join on with the idea of limiting resources so this can be the game you claim it is. Oh don't worry, the carebears who want to ISK-snatch grinding mindlessly in highsec will be howling alongside your NULL overloords as they watch the magical ISK fountain dry up. And when Null Lord 1 runs out of moons and starts to covet the moons of Null Lord 2, while highsec comes out to null looking for resources, you will get all of the PVP your leet uber gate camps will want - and then some.

And if you don't like the idea, let us know what a hypocrite you are.

I am sorry I missed how many people have to log on in those 20,000 people and stay logged in, to make the moon miner work

A moon miner works tirelessly for whoever is its master. If the 20k don't keep vigil, that moon miner will eventually fall to people who will. And then, how is the moon miner working for the 20k people?