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[AISA] Caldari Prime and Freedom's Call

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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#21 - 2013-03-15 18:45:28 UTC

Dropping in with a small point of note, since I received a message asking to ascertain the legitimacy of this information. While I cannot say whether the information leaked is true or not, I can confirm that the article by ISD Katerina Markova itself is an actual widely-published piece, not the figments of any single capsuleer's imagination.

(OOC: Eve News articles are valid widely-known in-character information)

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2013-03-15 21:26:46 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
What most of them want is some stability, some measure of security instead of having their home systems change hands over and over again.


Isn't that a bit ironic ?

Katran Luftschreck wrote:
The question is not whether or not Heth gave orders to kill everyone in the world for sneezing the wrong way. We already know that he's already done so in the past and will continue doing so until that tumor in his head jumps out and starts tap-dancing on live telecoms.

The question is whether or not the Caldari Navy officers in charge will actually continue to follow those orders full well knowing that the person giving them is unfit for command.

Eventually they will realize that they have to make a choice: Risking death in total war with the Federation and billions, if not trillions, dead to appease the madness of one man or risking death in total war with one man to save the lives of those same people, as well as their own conscience.

There it is, that's it. Those are your choices. And if they don't decide soon then Heth is going to decide it for them.


That sounds like a lot of faith and hopes put in Humanity.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#23 - 2013-03-15 22:21:04 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Form a fleet and take out the titan.
Please, no.
There's no telling what will happen when the titan is attacked, and it may very well cost the lives of the Gallente held hostage.
Cold Wind was mentioned. Let us remember his lessons, and reflect on them.
If the Gallente fight in Luminaire, let it be alongside the Caldari.
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-03-15 22:34:06 UTC
Julianus Soter wrote:
[[FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE]]

.... The planet, which has a significant population of Gallente Federation citizens squatters and invaders trapped on its surface,
...



Your press release required some editing for truth.

I'm sure Heth would absolutely not interfere with any Gallente effort to repatriate these persons to Gallente planets at this late date.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-03-15 22:37:48 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Or you could just, y'know, evacuate the Gallenteans off the planet since you think they're in danger. I'm sure the Caldari would more than happy to help you do it, too. Roll


Exactly.

For some reason, the Federation and the Republic simply cannot see this great mythical beast in the room.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-03-15 22:41:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Adel Khamez
Julianus Soter wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Or you could just, y'know, evacuate the Gallenteans off the planet since you think they're in danger. I'm sure the Caldari would more than happy to help you do it, too. Roll


Hard to evacuate people out of an underwater arcology-prison, Katran. The Caldari State Executor also made it clear that any Gallente attempting to flee the planet would be killed or captured, and that the Gallente quarters of the planet's cities would be punished by orbital bombardment.

So, nope.


Have you considered ceding the home planet of the Caldari State to the Caldari State, and then simply asking for permission to remove your citizens?

Is this too hard for secular socialist nose-counters to figure out? Do you have to take a vote to do what is obviously the right thing?

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#27 - 2013-03-15 22:56:29 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:

Have you considered ceding the home planet of the Caldari State to the Caldari State, and then simply asking for permission to remove your citizens?


The issue isn't legal ownership of Home, President Souro Foiritan officially ceded our Homeworld to the State at the end of the One Day War. What remains however is Federation's claim on the planet, which President Roden has yet to renounce. Until that happens, I'm afraid most Federation extradites will remain as they are.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-03-16 00:03:45 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:

The issue isn't legal ownership of Home, President Souro Foiritan officially ceded our Homeworld to the State at the end of the One Day War. What remains however is Federation's claim on the planet, which President Roden has yet to renounce. Until that happens, I'm afraid most Federation extradites will remain as they are.


I suppose I should try to keep up better with an ally's political issues.

So this has already been settled by treaty, and now President Roden is attempting to renounce this? Ayeee.

Does he really want another war? Do the fools that voted for him realize he is playing stupid games with their lives? A more obvious indictment against mob rule I cannot conceive of.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#29 - 2013-03-16 00:15:47 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:

I suppose I should try to keep up better with an ally's political issues.

So this has already been settled by treaty, and now President Roden is attempting to renounce this? Ayeee.

Does he really want another war? Do the fools that voted for him realize he is playing stupid games with their lives? A more obvious indictment against mob rule I cannot conceive of.


President Foiritan did indeed sign a treaty with the Caldari State recognizing the change in sovereignty of Home, however the issue at the core remains the same as it did when we left the Federation two hundred years ago. The Federation believes the planet is theirs, and we believe it ours. The legal exchange in sovereignty means nothing if the idea of ownership can't be stricken from the previous claimants mind.

President Roden rode into power with one of his chief proponents being the return of Home to the Gallente Federation. Unfortunately I believe the voters knew exactly what they were getting themselves into.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-03-16 00:35:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Adel Khamez
Simon Louvaki wrote:

President Roden rode into power with one of his chief proponents being the return of Home to the Gallente Federation. Unfortunately I believe the voters knew exactly what they were getting themselves into.


No they don't know a thing.

When the surrounding planets and stations have their hospitals fill with surviving radiation burn patients, they will start to get a clue.

Mob rule sows and reaps the whirlwind.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2013-03-16 04:43:24 UTC
Sadly the Federation is historically poor at realising that actions have consequences until after the fact. They didn't realise that the consequence of attacking Home and bombarding it would be an attack on their own home world. They didn't realise that a consequence of stealing it would be us taking it back.

They don't seem to realise that a consequence of attacking it again will be us burning as many of their cities to the bedrock as we can before Home Fleet is overwhelmed - and then all the insanity that will follow.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#32 - 2013-03-16 05:42:14 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:

No they don't know a thing.



I can't claim to know the mind of another man and I've always found it unwise to presume to despite allowing my emotions get the better of me at times. A thing I must strive to correct.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
#33 - 2013-03-16 07:36:23 UTC
How can he speak of peace just thinking about them holding Caldari Prime hostage for so long. This is an attack most likely from them to oppress Caldari Prime once again.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2013-03-16 11:19:48 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Adel Khamez wrote:

Have you considered ceding the home planet of the Caldari State to the Caldari State, and then simply asking for permission to remove your citizens?


The issue isn't legal ownership of Home, President Souro Foiritan officially ceded our Homeworld to the State at the end of the One Day War. What remains however is Federation's claim on the planet, which President Roden has yet to renounce. Until that happens, I'm afraid most Federation extradites will remain as they are.


Are you be blaming Roden for what the Caldari State did ? Since when treaties matter in this war ?

So many pots and kettles, everywhere.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#35 - 2013-03-16 16:26:13 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:


Are you be blaming Roden for what the Caldari State did ? Since when treaties matter in this war ?

So many pots and kettles, everywhere.


I prefer to keep my cookware in the kitchen, not in my statements. So no, I am not blaming Roden for what Heth did.

Roden, however, hasn't helped the cause of peace by stiring the embers of war by making Home a bullet point for his election. Blame is difficult to award in this situation, since this is simply the result in a long line of dominos that was tipped two hundred years ago. The inevitable invasion of Home was the result of the Federations unwillingness to yield it back to the State during our war of succession which was caused by Caldari terrorists and Gallente Fascists.

Today we all pay for the sins of our collective past.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-03-17 00:10:45 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Adel Khamez wrote:

No they don't know a thing.



I can't claim to know the mind of another man and I've always found it unwise to presume to despite allowing my emotions get the better of me at times. A thing I must strive to correct.


I cannot believe that anyone would want to have themselves subjected to orbital nuclear and kinetic bombardment, unless they were severely clue deprived, or too mentally disabled to know better.

Once your planet has gone from Temperate to Barren ( or Lava ), there are not enough transport ships in this cluster to evacuate everyone in time.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#37 - 2013-03-17 01:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rinai Vero
Yet again we see a situation where the entire cluster would be better served if the Caldari State and those who consider themselves loyal to it would seek compromise. Instead they offer bitter interludes on a history well known to both sides. I must say, however, that I appreciate the efforts of Simon Louvaki to at least keep the facts of that history accurate.

Instead of another cyclical debate mired in our mutually ignoble history, let us look at our present state. As far as Tibus Heth and his Provist thugs are concerned the Gallente population currently residing on Caldari Prime have value only as hostages. Unfortunately for him, no amount of oppression or terrorism will convince those people to bow to his tyranny. They aren't fighting for some imagined Gallente need to sustain the quarrels of our ancestors. They are fighting with the universal determination of people defending their homes and families.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2013-03-17 05:58:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
The past, as they say, is prologue. We shouldn't let it become the narrative of today, but neither is that narrative complete without it's prologue.

I wanted a joint solution. A compromise that might herald a new start. Instead, perhaps, it is time to call upon both sides to get the Federal citizens OFF the surface of Caldari Prime - as soon as is practical. Then they can no longer be termed hostages, they no longer can be deemed to be opressed.

Surely nobody with a brain can deem the Home Fleet to be a true threat to Federal sovreignty - after five years without incident of any kind, it's obviously clear that the State holds no ambitions for Federal property that aren't made legitimate by the CEWPA war. Let the Gallente go back to their people. Let it be a gesture of good faith - and let's see if Malkalen was a fluke caused by a single hateful man, or whether it really represents the face under the Gallente mask.

Because the titan will still be there and will still turn it's guns on whichever of the two worlds it can reach in case of an attack. Then let the Federation take responsibility for whatever befalls - and let their ancestors turn their faces from them and vengeance follow quickly in the wake of any betrayal.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#39 - 2013-03-17 16:25:35 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
The past, as they say, is prologue. We shouldn't let it become the narrative of today, but neither is that narrative complete without it's prologue.


Except the past was used as a narrative.

Quote:
A compromise that might herald a new start. Instead, perhaps, it is time to call upon both sides to get the Federal citizens OFF the surface of Caldari Prime - as soon as is practical. Then they can no longer be termed hostages, they no longer can be deemed to be opressed.


Why? They live there. Longer than any living Caldari have. Many of those Federal citizens are ethnic Caldari, too.

Quote:
Then let the Federation take responsibility for whatever befalls - and let their ancestors turn their faces from them and vengeance follow quickly in the wake of any betrayal.


"I'm holding a gun to the head of a hostage. If you come any closer, I'll pull the trigger. It's your fault, even if you never even touched the gun. Their blood is on your hands".

No. Caldari capsuleers have demanded that Federal pilots understand them, while failing to realize that understanding is a two-way process. You have somehow expected the Federation to just hand over Caldari Prime; that's not how a supranational union works. If you wanted to negotiate, you will have to negotiate with the people of Caldari Prime.

They will thus provide a democratic mandate to the Federation that they could not refuse, assuming they wanted to be under State authority. However, in the current climate, that bridge was destroyed.
kul Shaishi
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
#40 - 2013-03-17 22:16:21 UTC
you are insane as heth
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