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A bit creeped out by a single rogue drone.

Author
Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#41 - 2013-03-18 03:57:35 UTC
Pilot Sepherim.

There have been documented accounts of Drone experimentation in organic evolution, as well as co-operation with capsuleers.
While rare, these events show a possibility for future co-operation and potential co-existence.

We would also note that the drones mentioned within the Spectrum Breach event are referred to as construction drones. Therefore they were not designed to destroy spacefaring vessels or kill humans. It is likely that the hives most often encountered merely see capsuleer vessels as pre-refined raw materials controlled by an efficient yet easily damaged central processing unit.

We Return.

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.

Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-03-18 05:41:29 UTC
And we are getting our knickers in a bunch why exactly?
Problem: non-hostile rogue drone, said drone is non-hostile for reasons we do not understand and are known only to their own hive mind
Solution: shoot them in the face, if rogue drones have faces that is. If not then shoot them wherever you deem appropriate. Rogue drones are not our friends and they never have been our friends. Just because one is non-hostile now does not mean it will remain non-hostile. It could be watching you to size you up for an attack, it could just be dicking you for all its little rogue drone friends to come in and light you up.
Point remains, kill it with fire, just to be on the safe side.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#43 - 2013-03-18 13:31:38 UTC
I hope that people will not suddenly not understand why I'm non-hostile, and kill me for it.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-03-19 04:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sepherim
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Human? No. Alive? Yes, in a sense.

Even the lowliest bacteria can evolve, consume & create more of itself. They defend territory, form hives and create structures. Now we're up to the insect and animal level of intelligence.

And the threshold of sentience that separates humans from animals? We've seen that they communicate. They have language. How much more evidence is needed?

Carbon or steel, life always follows the same rules & patterns. So yes, using biological concepts when talking about the rogue drones is completely appropriate.


I'm afraid I disagree with all these assumptions. They are intelligent, sure, but not alive. They aren't born, they don't die. They don't feed, they don't reproduce, they don't breathe. They aren't based on carbon and lack DNA.

Instead, they are created and deactivated/destroyed. They use energy but fed through artificial means. They don't reproduce, the hive builds what it needs. They don't use oxygen. And so on.

So no, most of the basic rules of life are not applied to then and, thus, they follow different and dangerous patterns.

As for those reports, captain XS365BT, I'd like to see them. And the evidence on which they are based. Until I do, I remain limited to my own experience: and that ends with laser in the hull of the drone after they target me. Time after time.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#45 - 2013-03-20 00:37:20 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Carbon or steel, life always follows the same rules & patterns. So yes, using biological concepts when talking about the rogue drones is completely appropriate.



N̼̂ͨ͌̿ͪo̬̟̘̠̚t̹̦̙̺͔̬͙ͮ.̲ͅ ̵̤̭ͧ͛ͪͬ̎ͩ̑Ḁ̲̥̮̼̀l̩̺̆͘w̯͕͚̼ͫ̐ͩ̔̃͛̾ȧ̼̖͚̬̳̲̺̀͛̂͛̋̑y̷̩͙̆ͦ͌̓ͥ̈ͥs̬̻̄ͥ̃̔͛.̞͖̜͔̺̤̻̅ͮ́̿


Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#46 - 2013-03-20 01:13:16 UTC
U̵̺̠͙͍̹͔͇͈͎͌̇ͪ̑ͮͨ̆̑̊̃̍ͮ̈́̆͗ͤ̐ͦ̀ǹ̌͆̋̓̂ͫ̑͏͏̩̗̞̖̤͓̗͉͉̦̰̦̬̪̻͉f̷̶͕̮̼̺̖̻͎̼͕̳̻̆ͦ̋̿ͪ͒͂̋̓̏̚o̶͍͉̲̺̯̼͕̬̹̙̘͚̱ͧ̓̏́͌̓͒͑̑̿͐ͯ͒ͪ̈́̓̚͞ͅr̾̓̏̎ͮ҉̟͇̱̙̭̕g̨̫͎̤͇̗ͭ̍̾͐̈ͭͤ͂́͡i̢͇͔͎̺͍̖ͤ̈ͫ̏ͨ̊̈́͒̍͟͠͝v̨̡͕̦͔̯̖̫̼̥͙̓̅̽̇̀̕i͗͑͆̿̓̔̓̈́ͭͦ̚͏̘̞̭̺̣͚̻̝̙͍̘̯̗͙̗́̀ņ̯̫͚͖͚͈͈͍̃̍ͭ̈́̎ͣͭ̒́̚ģ̡̮̣͍̥̫̼̣̳̥̣̝͚̤̱̦̉̇͌̄͋̓ͨͣ͑̅̈ͮ̚͢͝ͅ ̘͈͔̺̋̇ͭͩ̍ͥ͋ͣ͋ͥ̿ͧͭ͛͗̓͠͝C̅̈ͤ̃̈́͌̔͏̨͉̝̼͈͖̟͝͡ŏ̹͉̖̯́ͮ̓̇̉ͯ̆̿ͣ̎̑͌ͧ͠l̴̡͓̙̬͈̼̖̟̺̰̤̤̳̅̏͛̅̿ͭ͒̑ͮ̌̚̚d̛̹̰͓̜̱̗̉̌ͪͤͭ̓̓̀̈̔̒̅̎ͫ̇̀́͞.̌͆̏ͬ̒̿ͭ̅͌̀̌ͤ̚͏̧̫̱̙͉̺̜̟̝


̴͔̝̗̩̺͓̼̭͔̦̝̎ͦ̊ͬ̄̎ͬ̐̀̽̏̍̏ͧ̔͐̌͝H̵̭̞̤̭͐̌͂ͫ̔̊ͪ̋̆ͮ̋͆͆ͮͩ̚e͊̃ͧͤͭ͐̇͒͂ͦ͏̨̡̥̖̹̫͚̖̹͞͠ ̰̳͙̺͎̦̳̞̪̗̤͎̙͔̤̣̰̿̌̀̉̋ͣͩ̽ͣ̓̀C͍̩͕͚͓̝̣̲̖̼̱̏̽͂ͪ͒̋ͥ̊͆̓ͦ̊̓́͘͢͟͝ͅo̧͔̘͓̤̻͚̭̞͍̩̟̗̬̩̖̪̱̳͌̌̓͑ͫ̎ͥ̈́ͮ̽m͌̒ͦ̋̊ͮ̆͗̉͐̓ͪ̈̋̍̔̕͏͇̼͈͇̗̻̗̫̲̳̲͎e̱͈̥͈̺̞͈ͦ̍ͦ̄ͩ̅͌͛͛̅ͪ̍ͮ͗̀ͪ̚̚͟s̵̷̵̡̹̳̣̰͇̩̳͚ͯͧͨ̃͛̽̎̂̒ͤ́.͔͈̬̟̟͓͖͇͕̫̗͕̹̗̲͕͓͉̔ͯ͌̄̍͂̐ͭͬͤ̐̿̇ͪ̿͛̐̚͟͢ͅ

Katrina Oniseki

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2013-03-20 10:30:14 UTC
Sepherim wrote:

They are not human, stop thinking they are or they follow our process. That only leads to mistakes, which they'll be glad to use to destroy you.


Oh, but silly boy, you're projecting your human way of thinking onto the creatures right here.

This is exciting, though, I wish I had been around to... observe ~♥.

We have much to learn from the Rogues. I pray that we do not miss the opportunities that are ahead of us... although we so very often do.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#48 - 2013-03-20 13:12:43 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
I'm afraid I disagree with all these assumptions. They are intelligent, sure, but not alive. They aren't born, they don't die. They don't feed, they don't reproduce, they don't breathe. They aren't based on carbon and lack DNA.

Instead, they are created and deactivated/destroyed. They use energy but fed through artificial means. They don't reproduce, the hive builds what it needs. They don't use oxygen. And so on.

So no, most of the basic rules of life are not applied to then and, thus, they follow different and dangerous patterns.


Plants are not born - they grow from seeds. They don't use oxygen. They don't feed in the sense that we understand it. They take energy directly from sunlight. There are organisms that live in deep waters that survive off nothing more than minerals and heat from thermal vents. There are other organisms that reproduce by asexual division. Many viruses consider oxygen to be toxic, and all of them reproduce entirely through parasitic means. Don't even get me started on prions.

Do you know what else isn't born? Clones.

Do you know what else never dies? Us.

I would respectfully suggest that you consider expanding your definitions of "life" lest you find yourself placed outside of them.


http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2013-03-20 22:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sepherim
I'm not a botanic, but I believe you are again wrong:

Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Plants are not born - they grow from seeds.


Seeds are born. Just through other process, but are born. Just like an egg gives a birth to a bird. If you don't like the word, you can change it for the phrasing "come into existance as a product of a parent version of yourself".

Quote:
They don't use oxygen.


If I remember my highschool lessons on biology well, yes they do, during their night cycles of photosynthesis.

Quote:
They don't feed in the sense that we understand it. They take energy directly from sunlight.


No, they don't. Sunlight is the energy they use to transform the nutrients they take through their roots into proper savia that they can use. So they do feed: they absorb nutriets from the ground and process them to make them edible and useful to them.

Quote:
There are organisms that live in deep waters that survive off nothing more than minerals and heat from thermal vents. There are other organisms that reproduce by asexual division. Many viruses consider oxygen to be toxic, and all of them reproduce entirely through parasitic means. Don't even get me started on prions.
Do you know what else isn't born? Clones.


Clones are born. Just artificially. And I am not too sure we are considered to be fully alive in the full sense of the word, in any case. And I'm not sure the Scriptures would accept that either, actually, afterall the original flesh is sacred to a point, even though in different levels to the different positions of people in society.

And if I think so about myself, I'm sure you'll understand I'm not sure I consider all those examples to be fully alive either. If they only not fulfill one of the quickly drawn characteristics, then they're mostly alive, if they fulfill too few, they are not.

Quote:
Do you know what else never dies? Us.


Oh, but we do, over and over again. That our consciousness is copied into another body doesn't mean we don't die. And, in the end, we will meet a death that will be final: due to a mistake in cloning, or problems in data transfer or whatever, technological systems always fail when viewed in the light of eternity.

So no, I don't consider your arguments enough to expand my definition of life, I accepted when I took the pod that I was becoming "something different" which included something not entirely a part of life, and certainly artificial creations that come out of industrial installations aren't alive.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-03-20 23:43:25 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:

Do you know what else never dies? Us.


How do you know that you are not merely an excellent copy of a Capsuleer that had just died?

We try to avoid the question of identity and soul by only activating clones serially. But there is nothing preventing parallel cloning other than our natural disgust at such an act.

God-flesh dogma is not just religious. It is also a very good idea.

I wonder if, when I get podded for the last time,that capsuleer will be alone in Paradise, or part of a crowd of Adel Khamezes? This may be a good reason for limiting cloning.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#51 - 2013-03-22 04:13:13 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:

Do you know what else never dies? Us.


How do you know that you are not merely an excellent copy of a Capsuleer that had just died?


You mean you've never asked yourself?
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