Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Since this is the Features & Ideas board, the real questions are

1) is the subject (suicide ganking) a dev encouraged feature or an exploit?
2) is it working as intended?
3) what (if anything) about this subject should be changed to improve the game?

Personally, it seems pretty obvious that its a deliberate feature in the game. Some of the behaviors suck when on the receiving end, but what I've read is that most players are upset by the "one-sidedness"or "helplessness" of it.

While the recent Goon activity has really put a spotlight on suicide kills, its been an issue forever. Suicide pirates have always lurked a couple jumps from trade hubs like Yulai or Jita, scanning ships' cargo, and then using a 2nd character from a different corp to actually loot the ship.

This illustrates what most victims object to- the actual killer does get blown up- but the victim still gets looted with no way to retaliate. Since its high sec, they can't fire first, and the actual looter is often an alt in a npc corp- can't wardec that.

Sooo.... is this "working as intended"? I'd have to guess that the dev team is aware of the issue- its certainly been posted about enough lately, but given the silence, they are probably letting it percolate a little more to see if its REALLY a problem, as opposed to an irritation.

What should be done? That depends on the questions above- there is a lot that players can do: don't fly afk, put defenses on your hauler instead of just more cargo holds, fly with a partner to loot your ship if you DO get killed - there are many similar suggestions. I personally just don't see this part changing.

If the constant mining ship kills is deemed a problem, there are many things that COULD be done- I personally have enjoyed the spectacle, but do think its silly that the Gallente empire hasn't retaliated. The entire Goon event is obviously a cafeful use of game mechanics, but nothing says that those mechanics can't be adjusted. Again, my guess is that CCP is both amused by the event, as well as concerned about any fallout.

So- taking the emotion out, is this really a "problem", or just a speedbump?

Suicide ganking as a concept is fine. (Some expensive T2 ships that are popular targets could use a much-needed EHP boost, or more CPU/PG so that they can fit a bigger tank.)

The main issue is that people who have trashed their security status by suicide ganking can continue to suicide gank in hi-sec systems without having to periodically spend time raising their security status back up. The existing punishment / enforcement mechanics are broken when they can simply use a SMA / Orca / Station to re-ship and blow up another target.

Ultimately, probably the only fix is going to be a code change where you are prevented from boarding anything other then a shuttle in hi-sec systems where faction navies could shoot at you due to your security status. So as your security status drops, your ability to still fly gank ships also becomes more and more limited to the point where you can't fly anything other then a shuttle in 0.5 or above systems.

And before you say "CCP would never", remember that other groups have done similar things with the hi-sec rules in the past which resulted in changes to hi-sec rules. Large scale exploitation of loop holes that turn hi-sec into a killing field drives away subscribers and gets CCP's attention.

Troll alert.
Obviously, given the amount of posts that reference this topic, not everyone shares your terse opinion. Especially since the first question wasn't a yes/no.

1) is the subject (suicide ganking) a dev encouraged feature or an exploit?

Encouraged feature

2) is it working as intended?

Prob not, when/if the biggest alliance/s in the game decide to over use this mechanic there's no way for CCP to control it, this means this/those alliances can dictate whatever they want to everything/everyone else in the game no matter f it ends by players leaving because they just can't play the game at all (miners/haulers/industrials not willing to do something else)

It can be used has ransom method and force game direction, good or bad, only time will be judge of it.

3) what (if anything) about this subject should be changed to improve the game?

Concord/cops instant grid/lock/ecm/kill negative SS no matter the ships number and reduce/retract insurance pay off, you would still be able to use the mechanic but not without repercussions any more.

Has for -10 pilots being able to fly ships and not get caught by cops by concord, yes they should still be able to come in pods but never in a single shuttle.

Actions should have repercussions and what ganking is concerned they have almost none other than a few rats kills to get the SS back

Feature.
Yes.
Make them easier — the last set of changes made highsec too safe.

It would look irrelevant to anything that goes on in EVE.
If highsec industrially inclined players don't want to PvP, they can not log in. As soon as they do, they're PvPing by very design — that's simply how EVE works. Highsec is not intended to be a PvP-free zone for the simple reason that nothing in EVE is PvP-free.

If they don't want to PvP, then EVE is the wrong game for them.
If they think anything else, they're deluding themselves.

That is the end of the argument.

You realize that you just encouraged at LEAST a quarter of the player-base to quit Eve, right? Thank god you don't run the company. You'd have a hard time explaining that to shareholders.

No. I encourage them to start playing EVE instead.

If they are already doing it, then they're already PvPing, so it's not like it will make any difference.

So the whole "play like you wish" argument is not valid? PvP rules all? Because that is what you are saying.

There are many possible "solutions" that are reasonable, but not in the player's control... for example, a new ship type that is more defensive, and not profitable to be solo suicided. But players can't make new ships. Real world, in war, you innovate and make new weapons/ships/whatever to counter tactics, but that option is not available. I've posted elsewhere about the concept of Q-ships, which are basically heavily armed merchant ships designed to ambush the ambushers- they were from the two world wars.

As far as all the arguments about "that is how Eve is designed", that statement is constantly used to justify actions, rather than anything I see from CCP's official game descriptions. I'd bet that most forum posters aren't that naive, and most of these posts become battles over semantics or just flame wars.

I champion the idea that these actions (such as suicide ganks) are "legal" but that things should evolve.... ie, piracy is up, so industrials get tougher, but for balance reasons there is some other cost.

I'm not in favor of making everything in high-sec a safe happy fun place, and I'm not supporting victim's rights- but I do think the current system may not be as balanced as it could be.

Those strategies are fine. Unless you want to mine. At all. Ever.
Maybe CCP will allow me to fit an ice laser on a battleship?