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ancil reppers - what is wrong with them

Author
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#21 - 2013-03-12 22:02:27 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
You had SAR and MAR fits that worked before. Now they are just better. What's the problem with that?


I guess no one's made a xXNoScopeGanjaXx youtube pvp vid showing off the new modules yet? Sometimes the metagame just takes time to reveal itself. I think MJDs as well still receive very little attention and discussion for what is an excellent new module.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#22 - 2013-03-12 22:53:12 UTC
The SAAR is fantastic. I waited a week after they came out before buying some Rifters and equipping them thus:

High:
200mm II x 3
Rocket Launcher II
Mid:
AB II
Web
Scram
Low:
SAAR
EANM II
Internal Force Field Array
Rigs:
Projectile Burst
Armor Aucilliary Nano Pump x 2

Absolute killing spree. Loved it. Merlins, incursi, comets, rff, slashers, tristans,-- great little surprise!
Umega
Solis Mensa
#23 - 2013-03-13 01:38:14 UTC
I found them to be a bonus.. a significant step up.

Watch out for the words of lemmings, the cookie-cutter cults. They aren't very adapt at thinking for themselves.. spitting out what they heard from some one else they trust, and that person could very will be just a **** lucky PvP pilot.. running glorified killboard stats that don't showcase them using pills/boosters/RR alts to achieve the numbers, all while preying on 'easy' targets.

TDs. For years, very few players were preaching their effectiveness.. while the majority ignored. Something changed.. without the module actually changing.. and now TDs are the rage. Sometimes.. **** changes without **** actually being changed. Ideas change.. I could run off a list of ship/weapon/mod cookie cut changes that happened, without any significant mechanic changes taking place to promote the switch.

And you can't discount all the surrounding parameters of AARs. Rigs.. no penality to piloting. ASBs likely going to promote higher sigs.. no matter how little (and sometimes not so little the sig bloom), that equates to taking more dmg.. it is a Fact and no reason to discount such. Couple points in sig bloom upwards could make the difference from hits landing as 'grazing' to hit' or even 'penetrates'. Increasing sig is going to have a positive impact on your opponent(s) dps curve, fact. No longer being slower going active armor is a HUGE bonus.

Given the changes to hulls, and more to come.. a lot of ships are now supporting utlity highs, more so than in the past. The chance of coming across neuts are more likely.. and the ability to fit NOS more likely as well. ASBs fits generally side-step cap-boosters.. AARs fit usually won't. What's the point? Active armor ships are likely going to have better cap reserves than ASBs.. which leads to resists. Armor are gifted with a capless omni protection mods.. shield omni needs cap, see where this is going? On top of this.. the passive bonuses to active hardeners are now bye-bye.

Oh, and DCU is still more friendly to armor ships.. which happen to be Gallente and Amarr.. which happen to be the two highest structure classes.. again, benefitting from DCU even further.

You can blindly look at the one number.. but it isn't the whole equation of fights/fits. To think that one number you decided to focus on as being the determining factor towards deciding if something is good or bad.. is, imo.. a stupid, half-assed way of figuring things worth.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-03-13 02:30:40 UTC
In 30 seconds the saar dumps the equivilent of a t2 400mm plate. Turn off auto reload and it will take that time again before a t2 sar overtakes it. In a frig fight, someones dead by then and as mentioned before it's often the first 30 secs where you need the rep the most.

They're solid.

The aar means I can leave the plate off and keep the speed. Attack frigs are the biggest winners here. The only thing wrong with them is their price, which looks like it has stabilized around 6 mill atm. More BP drops please.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#25 - 2013-03-13 07:09:01 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
well did some tests with my friend and so far it looks dual rep setups perform better .... sigh so far the only plus is in a moment you want to save cap.


Use one AAR and one normal rep. Primarily run the normal rep, and pulse the AAR as you need to catch up. They work very nicely together I find.

EDIT: Yeah pretty much what Alucard said.



well nice on the paper but betterto run two normal reps ... long fightwise


well, I turn auto reload off on my AAR's all the time. And most of my fights I find I need more repping power early as I try to get into my optimal//fight multiple people and towards the end of the fight I am at my optimal, taking less damage, and/or I've killed some people and the incoming dps has dropped off.

For example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPFpkeKgE_Q : My AAR didn't run out of paste until after the merlin was in armor. After that, it wasn't bad tanking a hookbill with the un-nanited repper. This is pretty much how much of my AAR fights go against multiple people.



yeah I found it "working" on my optimal speed tanking comets and firetails, but not the brawler fits. but in longer fights still they are meh ....
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#26 - 2013-03-13 10:01:14 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
yeah I found it "working" on my optimal speed tanking comets and firetails, but not the brawler fits. but in longer fights still they are meh ....

AAR is not meant to be better than regular AR for longer fights. They are not meant to obsolete regular AR.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#27 - 2013-03-15 10:16:44 UTC
The VC's wrote:
In 30 seconds the saar dumps the equivilent of a t2 400mm plate. Turn off auto reload and it will take that time again before a t2 sar overtakes it. In a frig fight, someones dead by then and as mentioned before it's often the first 30 secs where you need the rep the most.

They're solid.

The aar means I can leave the plate off and keep the speed. Attack frigs are the biggest winners here. The only thing wrong with them is their price, which looks like it has stabilized around 6 mill atm. More BP drops please.


repper is never same than plate, if someone can instapop your repper does not help. (example arty trasher)
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-03-15 11:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Bad Messenger wrote:
The VC's wrote:
In 30 seconds the saar dumps the equivilent of a t2 400mm plate. Turn off auto reload and it will take that time again before a t2 sar overtakes it. In a frig fight, someones dead by then and as mentioned before it's often the first 30 secs where you need the rep the most.

They're solid.

The aar means I can leave the plate off and keep the speed. Attack frigs are the biggest winners here. The only thing wrong with them is their price, which looks like it has stabilized around 6 mill atm. More BP drops please.


repper is never same than plate, if someone can instapop your repper does not help. (example arty trasher)


Whoever told you it was the same as a plate is an idiot, and yes, high alpha is very effective against active tankers, something which every good active tanker knows. You can manage the risk by not putting yourself in that position in the first place.

However, AAR's rep the equivalent hp of a T2 400mm plate in 30 seconds and in the right engagement (not arty thrashers) that can be very effective.



ps, Stay away from medium and large neuts too, they'll also ruin your day.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-03-15 11:44:57 UTC
Alpha and Cap are the reasons I would use plate plus rep combo, personally I feel the SAAR is pretty good, especially on a bonused frigate, it is great on my comet too.

I do doubt the stat posted my calculations suggested that overheated SAAR + 2x Nano pumps is the same as a RT 400m plate +2x Trimarks after 46 seconds, it is also better than overheated MASB + one raw boost from cap at the end after 27s with the rigs 35sec without.

Things change at cruiser level MAAR compares well against LASB and LSE surpassing both around 46 seconds but not (perhaps understandably) against 1600mm plate and XL-ASB.

LAAR+ rigs also can compare not as well to XL-ASB +SBA II over an extended period, here you rely on advantages of armour EHP and mid slot e-war more to offset apparent raw tank.
Denuo Secus
#30 - 2013-03-15 15:59:59 UTC
I made the opposite experience. One of the major benefits of the AAR is its ability to be useful when run out of nanite. An ASB just stops to work after ~30sec. Which leads to dual ASB setups - low on EHP and more or less gimped fittings. Maybe I just do it wrong but I never had much luck with single ASB setups - contrary to single AAR + (not oversized) plate setups.
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