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Why complain about High Sec but not SOV mechanics? An honest look at null bears.

First post
Author
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#141 - 2013-03-12 02:22:45 UTC
Klymer wrote:
That wouldn't make a difference really as everything on the market would just increase by at least that much if not more to make up the difference.


no you wouldn't unless that's a market tax

Klymer wrote:
I'd also wager that you would see a large number of subscriptions lapse.


good, those are not the types that belong in eve anyway

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Frying Doom
#142 - 2013-03-12 02:27:28 UTC
Andski wrote:
if so many worthless pubbies are deeply concerned about two coalitions not grinding each other to death, why don't they band together and fight one of the two coalitions

oh right, it wouldn't be conducive to their goal of maximizing their cashouts

I would much rather Null industry is fixed as well as Sov when they get there.

With usage Sov it will mean if I want to duck shoot I know where to go and with an improved industry will mean I can go any where and pop some ratters or miners.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#143 - 2013-03-12 03:02:00 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Andski wrote:
if so many worthless pubbies are deeply concerned about two coalitions not grinding each other to death, why don't they band together and fight one of the two coalitions

oh right, it wouldn't be conducive to their goal of maximizing their cashouts

I would much rather Null industry is fixed as well as Sov when they get there.

With usage Sov it will mean if I want to duck shoot I know where to go and with an improved industry will mean I can go any where and pop some ratters or miners.Lol

I don't know about you two, but when I hear that Boat is going to shoot structures in subcaps I get a little ... excited.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2013-03-12 03:04:20 UTC
Andski wrote:

we don't give a flying **** what's "good for the game" in our politics; our continued existence takes priority over all else

nullsec isn't a spectator sport, if you want a war, shut off your ice mining bot and actually make some effort to form a group to fight us

otherwise, stop moaning


Why would I fight you when I could join you? See the problem? Probably not.

Anyways, keep wearing out your kneepads for Shadoo brother. Watching the Goons turn into BoB has been most entertaining.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Gianna Thirostin
Doomheim
#145 - 2013-03-12 03:23:09 UTC
Andski wrote:


we don't give a flying **** what's "good for the game"; our continued existence takes priority over all else




And here we have the whole reason why they've been bleating for changes that benefit them over every other section of the game, why every change they have been screaming about is about making their little empires nigh untouchable at the detriment of any other section of space.

Good to know the wargames they're running is just a massive attempt to make CCP do what they want or they'll quit, at least according to Shadoo. Maybe the best thing to EVE would be the old blood burning out over a years long sov war and all quitting. Imagine the scramble for space (and excitement) left in that vacuum.
Frying Doom
#146 - 2013-03-12 03:24:13 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Andski wrote:
if so many worthless pubbies are deeply concerned about two coalitions not grinding each other to death, why don't they band together and fight one of the two coalitions

oh right, it wouldn't be conducive to their goal of maximizing their cashouts

I would much rather Null industry is fixed as well as Sov when they get there.

With usage Sov it will mean if I want to duck shoot I know where to go and with an improved industry will mean I can go any where and pop some ratters or miners.Lol

I don't know about you two, but when I hear that Boat is going to shoot structures in subcaps I get a little ... excited.

Crap I think I must have caffeine withdrawals, nothing is making sense today.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#147 - 2013-03-12 03:26:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Gianna Thirostin wrote:
Andski wrote:


we don't give a flying **** what's "good for the game"; our continued existence takes priority over all else




And here we have the whole reason why they've been bleating for changes that benefit them over every other section of the game, why every change they have been screaming about is about making their little empires nigh untouchable at the detriment of any other section of space.

Good to know the wargames they're running is just a massive attempt to make CCP do what they want or they'll quit, at least according to Shadoo. Maybe the best thing to EVE would be the old blood burning out over a years long sov war and all quitting. Imagine the scramble for space (and excitement) left in that vacuum.


typical of a non-contributing NPC sockpuppet alt to quote me out of context

notice that it left out the part where i said "in our politics", in an attempt to make itself look clever

i also find it quite ironic that a hiseccer is complaining about people lobbying for changes to make them "nigh untouchable" - see the endless number of wretches who demand the removal of non-consensual wardecs and ganking, which is the only remaining threat to their botting, after the same wretches demanded that their botting exhumers be given welfare tanks so that they would not have to sacrifice yield

here is the full quote

Andski wrote:
we don't give a flying **** what's "good for the game" in our politics; our continued existence takes priority over all else

nullsec isn't a spectator sport, if you want a war, shut off your ice mining bot and actually make some effort to form a group to fight us

otherwise, stop moaning

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2013-03-12 03:41:09 UTC
Andski wrote:
Klymer wrote:
That wouldn't make a difference really as everything on the market would just increase by at least that much if not more to make up the difference.


no you wouldn't unless that's a market tax


So if it's not a market tax then what is it, you said it was hisec wide so....?
A tax on station services like manufacturing, refining and research? Guess what your ship and module prices just went up to offset those costs.
A tax on missions and bounties? LP conversion rates will go up increasing the cost of faction items

You can't tax someone else and not have to pay for it yourself in some way down the line.

Quote:
Klymer wrote:
I'd also wager that you would see a large number of subscriptions lapse.


good, those are not the types that belong in eve anyway


Paying customers don't belong? Would you prefer microtransactions?


Elysium Foxx
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2013-03-12 03:43:15 UTC
Oh dear, the amount of goontoon responses to other non-goon character responses is just pathetic. I guess they truely do have nothing better to do than troll gd while mining spod in nullbear-land. Amusing indeed.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#150 - 2013-03-12 03:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Sariah Kion wrote:
If these "folks" really wanted to drive EVE into a better place as far as pvp there would be posts pushing SOV changes instead of complaining about high sec industrialists.
So in other words, you're retracting your entire OP, since what people actually are doing is pushing for sov changes, not complaining about highsec industrialists.

Quote:
So why has the blame shifted to high sec as the cause of so many woes in null sec pvp?
It hasn't.

Quote:
I dont expect you to see the obvious irony and hypocrisy
Everyone sees the obvious hypocrisy of highsec welfare collectors (getting everything for free, and often of better quality than those who work and pay for it) hating how others play the game and being adamantly opposed to balanced gameplay, and then coming here to project those issues onto those who don't particularly care how people play and who'd prefer some kind of balance.

Sentamon wrote:
Oh look, once again we have the usual null crowd trying to convince everyone that null income sucks yet they're scared to do anything to risk their isk faucets and grip on power. income isn't particularly a factor and that it would be nice if more things were at risk in null.
Fixed.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2013-03-12 03:44:38 UTC
forum pvp = best pvp Lol
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#152 - 2013-03-12 04:01:15 UTC
Klymer wrote:
Paying customers don't belong?


Not if they're looking to play this game like they do every other MMO: grind grind grind grind grind, get bored, cash out

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-03-12 04:04:14 UTC
Elysium Foxx wrote:
Oh dear, the amount of goontoon responses to other non-goon character responses is just pathetic. I guess they truely do have nothing better to do than troll gd while mining spod in nullbear-land. Amusing indeed.


did you know that spod is literally the worst thing to mine in the game

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Apocryphal Noise
The Harpooner's Rest
#154 - 2013-03-12 04:19:42 UTC
You're sadly misinformed about the current state of nullsec politik. Your ignorance aside there's one huge difference between the person making isk in null and the person making isk in high sec; Tomorrow, someone can turn off their faucet. While that level 4 agent will always be there with unwavering resolve, space changes hands, blops gangs move in, alliances crumble. If you're suggesting that CCP is biased in favor of the content creators I'd say you might be onto something.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#155 - 2013-03-12 04:51:16 UTC
Apocryphal Noise wrote:
You're sadly misinformed about the current state of nullsec politik. Your ignorance aside there's one huge difference between the person making isk in null and the person making isk in high sec; Tomorrow, someone can turn off their faucet. While that level 4 agent will always be there with unwavering resolve, space changes hands, blops gangs move in, alliances crumble. If you're suggesting that CCP is biased in favor of the content creators I'd say you might be onto something.

Heh, black ops gangs. Hehhh

AFK cloaking is balanced though.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#156 - 2013-03-12 07:02:07 UTC
Incursions did nothing to 0.0 in all reality they just acted as breaking point for ppl that was sick and tired of mindless blob after blob and boredom to move and have some fun w/o anyone whipping them on the back.

Even now after buff they are a mere shadow of what they wore i have yet to see 200-500 ppl per system like it was,but 0.0 still have problem...you can remove them from high altogether and nerf l4 that would create critical mass of players and FORCE move them to 0.0.

And that would solve nothing bar enforcing enormous hoarding of isk and goods like always.

I get that if you want for grunt to go "yes sir yes" hi need more meat on the bone but that don't rly address issues of static isk volcanoes stagnant game play force projection with ease among other things...it is SOV and hi sec will not help in making it good nerfed or buffed,or what i am reading here is that 0.0 is not about pvp action and epc xxx death xxx,but rather who can pve / bot better.!

IMO.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#157 - 2013-03-12 07:48:56 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
One of the most glaring issues facing EVE is the terrible SOV mechanics which promote stagnation and isk hording and put "gf" pvp as an ancient memory.

I started to ask myself why do these null sec carebears continually come to the forums and complain about high sec and its pending destruction of this great pvp game when the SOV mechanics and system have done more harm to pvp then anything in high sec at current or in the future.

The answer is fairly obvious. These null sec alliances whom have blued up 70% of SOV space love their empires filled with isk spigots attached to moons giving them enormous passively earned wealth. They love to shoot their wealthy rats without a care in the world making more isk than mission runners in high sec. Lets not forget how much isk they earn shooting up dead space complexes without any worry about pvp. They can mine without any risk and reap the benefits. Hell no they dont want that to change. Instead they focus their energies on taking MORE by trying to lay the blame for the state of pvp in the game at the doorsteps of high sec.

I argue that may of the loudmouthed null bear trolls on this forum are more risk averse than many of the targets of their sharp tongued attacks. They are not looking for "change" to better EVE, bring about more pvp or bring balance to the game as a whole, they are simply looking for more isk and power.

Its a shame. If these null care bears would put as much effort into changing the real mechanic that can bring null sec back to life instead of engaging in the only pvp they wish to engage in at this point which is forum pvp. Turn that energy into changing SOV and it would benefit EVERYONE in the game and would draw people into null because they would have a fighting chance.

Unfortunately they are not interested in such a noble endeavor. They will merely keep on hiding the fact they are the ones who truly are the care bears hiding form the good fight behind terrible mechanics all the while acting the full part of hypocrite while pointing the finger at the "risk averse" high sec'er as the doom of everything good and righteous in EVE.

Null bears, you are not fooling anyone and only serve to make yourselves and your alliances look even more foolish than they currently look.





I don't know if you maybe somehow missed it, but we've been complaining about sov mechanics and moon balance like crazy.

For years.

These forums being as they are, I'm sure you'd be able to dig out a couple of posts by "nullseccers" defending the current sov system, but for every one you could produce there will be literally a thousand excoriating it.

Pretty much the same for the current moon balance.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#158 - 2013-03-12 07:57:25 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Even now after buff they are a mere shadow of what they wore i have yet to see 200-500 ppl per system like it was,but 0.0 still have problem...you can remove them from high altogether and nerf l4 that would create critical mass of players and FORCE move them to 0.0.
No, it wouldn't, because those players are not security-mobile.

The problem is that those players who are willing to move have absolutely no reason to do so — in fact, the game mechanics pretty consistently discourage them from getting out of highsec because it's simply not worth it on an individual level. That's the problem we're trying to solve, and it's a problem that has to be dealt with alongside the sov issue. Thinking that one takes precedence over the other is to be blind to both issues.

Sov (and moons and the complete lack of strategic power projection) represent a set of problems for alliances; industry and the like is a problem for the alliance members. Fixing one without the other fixes nothing. On the individual level, one of the key issues is the (often unbeatable) baseline set by highsec…

…but again, that's on the individual level. Setting up some kind of opposition between this discussion about highsec baselines and sov is to completely misidentify the levels on which the problems operate, which means a complete misidentification (and, in the OP's case, misrepresentation) of the problems themselves.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-03-12 08:14:18 UTC
Primary Me wrote:
Or they realise that the problems off null-sec are multi faceted and that they are too complex to be discussed in one debate. There are issues with industry, POSes, sov mechanics and moon mining, and these will need to be discussed/debated as seperate entities, otherwise the problem is just too large to even contemplate fixing.

Still, I'm sure that won't stop you replying with some sort of 'No YOU, Null bear!' nonsense and then having this thread locked for rantingRoll


In my experience, whenever the problem is "too big to be discussed in one debate", that's exactly what it needs. Not a debate about details such as industry, POSes and more, but a debate about "What do we even want Null Sec to be?" Everything else can be fixed, but only after we answer this one basic question. I've seen plenty of people referring to what they want, but they all (yours trully included) seem to have vastly differing opinions about what null should be in the first place.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#160 - 2013-03-12 08:28:04 UTC
Andski wrote:
i didn't know we had 70% of nullsec blued


Maybe you should log in sometime, then.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0