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Why complain about High Sec but not SOV mechanics? An honest look at null bears.

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Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#281 - 2013-03-12 21:18:05 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:


I dont think Malcanis is fooling many voters honestly. I think most take his rhetoric as just trying to pander to the Null Alliance voting block. He is definitely not the type of candidate that is in the best interests of the majority of players in High Sec. and I would suspect he will get minimal votes from them.


He's got my vote anyway. CCP has already adopted a good chunk of his manifesto, here's hoping they get the rest of it done too.

My favourite position of his is the recognition that highsec has moved on from the "newbie area that everyone is expected to leave eventually", to just a place for a more casual and relaxed operating environment.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#282 - 2013-03-12 21:18:17 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:


EVE is a game about the players and the growing majority of players are continuing to gather in High Sec for various reasons. CCP is not going to push the agendas of the few onto the majority.



Oh, now I see what this is about. You're worried that if all the alts of the "nullbears" can be repatriated to 0.0, that suddenly hi-sec won't look quite so dominant in the habitation statistics, and thus CCP development efforts would no longer be distorted by the false impression given by all those production alts being forced into hi-sec.

Actually that makes me like you much more. I was worried that you were incredibly stupid. But now I realise that you're just a normal, selfish EVE player.

High five, Sariah. You would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling nullsec kids.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#283 - 2013-03-12 21:19:47 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
Kane Alvo wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Would you care to dispute Mr Stark's figures with your own? Or do you prefer to just shout loudly and hope everyone confuses noise with conviction?


You're doing a fine job at it, CSM Candidate Malcanis. I can't decide whether you're just a talking head, or if you believe that your ideas are actually feasible. In either case, you and your null bear entourage represent the biggest threat to this game as far as this voter is concerned.

Fact: Null sec is largely void of NPC control and interaction. It is supposed to be a dangerous final frontier controlled by the players who live there.

Fact: A large majority of the players (at least, according to the forums) who live in null are not happy about the current state of affairs.

Malcanis' solution = Make null more like hi-sec, then nerf hi-sec.

I have zero vested interest in what happens in null sec, therefore, it can burn to the ground for all I care. But from what I can tell, the players who live there have done a fine job of ruining it already and now want to spread their power and influence to other areas of space. Isn't life in null supposed to be difficult? Isn't cutting the cord off from NPCs supposed to be what it's all about?

It must be, because every time one of these threads is posted, the opposition turns out in force to try to convince the rest of us how bad they really have it. I look at maps and see large blocks of space owned by major alliances who must be bored to tears, because instead of running their empires, they're whining in these threads.


I dont think Malcanis is fooling many voters honestly. I think most take his rhetoric as just trying to pander to the Null Alliance voting block. He is definitely not the type of candidate that is in the best interests of the majority of players in High Sec. and I would suspect he will get minimal votes from them.

CCP is not going to back any of these drastic changes. It wont matter if they are just pushed here on the forums or are brought to them by a CSM like Malcanis, they will be taken for what they are, self serving agendas not in the best interests of the game as a WHOLE.

EVE is a game about the players and the growing majority of players are continuing to gather in High Sec for various reasons. CCP is not going to push the agendas of the few onto the majority. Its a recipe for disaster and they now this. The best thing that can happen is a buff to null sec economy in SOV space that comes with an overhaul to SOV mechanics that would ensure that this buff would be felt from the bottom up instead of lining the pockets of the already filthy rich alliances. Once the death grip on vast areas of unused SOV space and the redistribution of the moon mining into wider areas of SOV space would help promote interest in smaller corps and alliances to leave high sec and seek industry and wealth in null sec because that would be a realistic goal after the changes. PvP would increase. Null would come to life again.



Fooling voters with what? That he is an advocate for balancing highsec and nullsec? Right now highsec is *extremely* profitable with little to no risk. Meanwhile, nullsec is marginally as profitable, simply from shooting rats, while being only as dangerous as the players who live there allow it to be. Don't you think that those who put in more effort into their space should profit more from living there?

No, you don't. You want everything to be super easy and handed to you on a silver platter.


Whats the point of debating if you're not going to honestly read whats posted?

Meh.

I just said Null should be buffed along with a change in how SOV works. Thus rewarding players and incentivising excursions into null to try and stake a claim by players and corps from hig sec should they chose.

The problem isnt high sec. Its how null sov space is currently that's the problem. Fix null. Analyze data after. Adjust high sec to the new realities of null sov space.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#284 - 2013-03-12 21:20:24 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Jireel wrote:
Just wanting to point out that being bored with highsec and having no interest in nullsec, there is still the third option avaliable, that is to say hello to sleepers.

Are there enough livable wormholes to support nullsec's population?

If they stopped blobbing and a whole ton of them ~manned up~ and went back to highsec, why not.


Your response didn't make any sense. Was it supposed to be from your Sarah Kion account?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#285 - 2013-03-12 21:21:36 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:

Whats the point of debating if you're not going to honestly read whats posted?


Why indeed...?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#286 - 2013-03-12 21:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sariah Kion
Malcanis wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:


EVE is a game about the players and the growing majority of players are continuing to gather in High Sec for various reasons. CCP is not going to push the agendas of the few onto the majority.



Oh, now I see what this is about. You're worried that if all the alts of the "nullbears" can be repatriated to 0.0, that suddenly hi-sec won't look quite so dominant in the habitation statistics, and thus CCP development efforts would no longer be distorted by the false impression given by all those production alts being forced into hi-sec.

Actually that makes me like you much more. I was worried that you were incredibly stupid. But now I realise that you're just a normal, selfish EVE player.

High five, Sariah. You would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling nullsec kids.


Expected response from a want to be politician pandering to special interests.

The ad hominem is the oldest trick in the book.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#287 - 2013-03-12 21:24:26 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
The problem isnt high sec. Its how null sov space is currently that's the problem. Fix null. Analyze data after. Adjust high sec to the new realities of null sov space.


Yes, in the ideal world it's CCP makes numerous small quality of life changes to 0.0 > leaves it alone a bit to watch > makes adjustments to 0.0 or highsec based on observations > iterates on changes to both areas

In reality it's CCP makes numerous small quality of life changes to 0.0 > Watches for a bit > Gets distracted by something shiny > Spends 2 years on that shiny thing a la Incarna > Players protest > CCP iterates on their original adjustments years later when they were originally slated as patches to the original expansion

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#288 - 2013-03-12 21:25:24 UTC
Its VERY telling when opposition to your opinions and viewpoints turn to personal attacks and unsavory tactics.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Jireel
Perkone
Caldari State
#289 - 2013-03-12 21:26:09 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Jireel wrote:
Just wanting to point out that being bored with highsec and having no interest in nullsec, there is still the third option avaliable, that is to say hello to sleepers.


Are there enough livable wormholes to support nullsec's population?

Considering C4 are completely desert and the ridiculous shittons of money you can make out of a C5-C6 when done correctly, yes
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#290 - 2013-03-12 21:27:53 UTC
Jireel wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Jireel wrote:
Just wanting to point out that being bored with highsec and having no interest in nullsec, there is still the third option avaliable, that is to say hello to sleepers.


Are there enough livable wormholes to support nullsec's population?

Considering C4 are completely desert and the ridiculous shittons of money you can make out of a C5-C6 when done correctly, yes


Oh good. On the other hand, they're kinda hard and stuff...
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#291 - 2013-03-12 21:28:00 UTC
Andski wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
The problem isnt high sec. Its how null sov space is currently that's the problem. Fix null. Analyze data after. Adjust high sec to the new realities of null sov space.


Yes, in the ideal world it's CCP makes numerous small quality of life changes to 0.0 > leaves it alone a bit to watch > makes adjustments to 0.0 or highsec based on observations > iterates on changes to both areas

In reality it's CCP makes numerous small quality of life changes to 0.0 > Watches for a bit > Gets distracted by something shiny > Spends 2 years on that shiny thing a la Incarna > Players protest > CCP iterates on their original adjustments years later when they were originally slated as patches to the original expansion


I would not argue with you at all on your points. We all need to hold CCP accountable for its part in this mess. A good and healthy null and high sec is in the best long term interests of the game as a whole. If everyone decided to pull on the rope together CCP would have no choice but to listen and act. Instead we are where we are...

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Jireel
Perkone
Caldari State
#292 - 2013-03-12 21:31:03 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Jireel wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Jireel wrote:
Just wanting to point out that being bored with highsec and having no interest in nullsec, there is still the third option avaliable, that is to say hello to sleepers.


Are there enough livable wormholes to support nullsec's population?

Considering C4 are completely desert and the ridiculous shittons of money you can make out of a C5-C6 when done correctly, yes


Oh good. On the other hand, they're kinda hard and stuff...

I would tend to argue that the point of being in a corp/alliance is to make hard content become easier, but since they can't be done in a drake, that might not be the case indeed.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#293 - 2013-03-12 21:33:42 UTC
Jireel wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Jireel wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Jireel wrote:
Just wanting to point out that being bored with highsec and having no interest in nullsec, there is still the third option avaliable, that is to say hello to sleepers.


Are there enough livable wormholes to support nullsec's population?

Considering C4 are completely desert and the ridiculous shittons of money you can make out of a C5-C6 when done correctly, yes


Oh good. On the other hand, they're kinda hard and stuff...

I would tend to argue that the point of being in a corp/alliance is to make hard content become easier, but since they can't be done in a drake, that might not be the case indeed.

If they're making hard stuff easier, they need to be nerfed.

It's like when you work together to manage your risk, your intel channel and/or local must be nerfed.

When you work together to mass force against an enemy, your blobbing tactics must be nerfed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#294 - 2013-03-12 21:34:35 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:


EVE is a game about the players and the growing majority of players are continuing to gather in High Sec for various reasons. CCP is not going to push the agendas of the few onto the majority.



Oh, now I see what this is about. You're worried that if all the alts of the "nullbears" can be repatriated to 0.0, that suddenly hi-sec won't look quite so dominant in the habitation statistics, and thus CCP development efforts would no longer be distorted by the false impression given by all those production alts being forced into hi-sec.

Actually that makes me like you much more. I was worried that you were incredibly stupid. But now I realise that you're just a normal, selfish EVE player.

High five, Sariah. You would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling nullsec kids.


Expected response from a want to be politician pandering to special interests.

The ad hominem is the oldest trick in the book.


It works better if you don't explain what you're doing immediately after you do it though.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#295 - 2013-03-12 21:35:46 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
Its VERY telling when opposition to your opinions and viewpoints turn to personal attacks and unsavory tactics.




Again, you're not supposed to tell people what tricks you're using on them...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#296 - 2013-03-12 21:45:07 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:


EVE is a game about the players and the growing majority of players are continuing to gather in High Sec for various reasons. CCP is not going to push the agendas of the few onto the majority.



Oh, now I see what this is about. You're worried that if all the alts of the "nullbears" can be repatriated to 0.0, that suddenly hi-sec won't look quite so dominant in the habitation statistics, and thus CCP development efforts would no longer be distorted by the false impression given by all those production alts being forced into hi-sec.

Actually that makes me like you much more. I was worried that you were incredibly stupid. But now I realise that you're just a normal, selfish EVE player.

High five, Sariah. You would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling nullsec kids.


Expected response from a want to be politician pandering to special interests.

The ad hominem is the oldest trick in the book.


It works better if you don't explain what you're doing immediately after you do it though.


Meh

Your vitriol and ad hominems tend to drown out any relevant parts of your message. You have latched onto certain null sec alliances support and that is very apparent to anyone paying attention.

I can take the personal attacks and Im not even running for CSM. You take criticism of your ideas and your platform in a rather peculiar way for someone standing on a platform of "I want whats best for all of EVE." You can say what you want but your actions in the form of participation in threads like this say another. Its quite clear that you are a pro null sec alliances status quo candidate.

There is no more to say as I'm not getting drawn into petty game of ad hominem tennis with you.

Good luck in your campaign.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#297 - 2013-03-12 21:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Flidais Asagiri
This Topic has been locked due to the massive amounts of pyramid posting and obvious trolling. Also, after digging through the 296 odd posts, a lot of this has been covered in other threads.

ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department