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Looking at Possible Wormhole Homes

Author
Aldrex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-03-11 15:54:07 UTC
So yea, I'm looking to move into WH space in the near future and am currently trying to figure out just exactly what kind I want.

Basically, from the anomalies, I think I'd want a Pulsar simply for the increase shielding for my POS's (my primary point of revenue and focus in this space).

Further more I'd like a static K-Space connection I believe so I can move into and out of High sec hauling whatever I've made back and forth easily to make money. I'd also like that connection to not allow BS sized ships to enter (basically to force any invaders into using BC and lower ships, therefore greatly reducing the risk to my POS, also allowing me to build larger ships than can enter thus increasing my ability to fend off attacks).

As I'm not too interested in sleepers, and mainly looking for a more secure (for eve's standards) POS Home so I don't imagine the class matters too much outside of what there is to mine in the system, which is random anyway to my knowledge (higher class just increases chances of better stuff and more of it as far as I know, but doesn't exclude it from the lower classes).

So I'm looking for input on to what I might have wrong, what class might be best for me, and just what I might wanna look for in a WH system to achieve this.
Malception
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-03-11 16:19:19 UTC
Are you going to be doing this solo or coming in with associates? Wormholes to/from class 1 systems are the only ones unable to support the transit of battleships, but you'll find the resources available in those systems to be somewhat less than desirable with respect to profits. You said you're not interested in Sleepers, though. What exactly are you looking to do in w-space?
Aldrex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-03-11 16:24:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrex
Malception wrote:
Are you going to be doing this solo or coming in with associates? Wormholes to/from class 1 systems are the only ones unable to support the transit of battleships, but you'll find the resources available in those systems to be somewhat less than desirable with respect to profits. You said you're not interested in Sleepers, though. What exactly are you looking to do in w-space?


As I said, I want a home base of operations to do whatever I want within. I wanna mine, manufacture, and build POS's. Wormholes offer me seclusion (relatively) with access to High sec and no restrictions on what I can build/mine.

Also, yes I'll be solo if you hadn't guessed from my above statement.

Edit: Also, I suppose BS would be acceptable, just so long as I'm not entertaining several of them, nor any capital ships. I wanna be able to rely on my POS's being able to defend themselves, and generally cap ships and BS can mess that up quite a lot. Limiting ships also allows me to focus my defenses better. I understand if a 200 person corp comes in with frigates, well, my POS is toast, but still, I wanna keep it safe from small gangs, which is easier to do if they don't have dreadnoughts especially.
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#4 - 2013-03-11 16:37:05 UTC
You are better off just picking a hole you like with statics you like. Any wormhole will allow the passage of enough ships to take down your pos regardless of class or your pos configuration.

If your pos is your primary concern, you are doing it wrong.
Aldrex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-03-11 16:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrex
chris elliot wrote:
If your pos is your primary concern, you are doing it wrong.


That may be the case that I'm doing it wrong, but this is EVE, and that's my right. I wanna create a large POS, and I wanna focus on it, and it's the point of all this. Sure it may end up being an unprofitable venture, and unorthodox, but I just wanna focus on a POS and would like it to not die at the slightest changing of cosmic winds.

This is EVE. It's a Sandbox. What we each wish to do is entirely on us however profitable or unorthodox it may be (though I'm certainly hoping this will be a profitable and long term venture naturally).
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6 - 2013-03-11 16:53:16 UTC
POSes (and sleepers) aren't affected by WH system effects (aside from random bugs) so POSes in a Pulsar don't get additional shield HP.
Aldrex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-03-11 16:54:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrex
Rroff wrote:
POSes (and sleepers) aren't affected by WH system effects (aside from random bugs) so POSes in a Pulsar don't get additional shield HP.


I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Suppose I need to go look at the effects again then. That's why I made this thread though.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#8 - 2013-03-11 17:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
I think your going to have to make a compromise somewhere:

C4s often give good seclusion but don't have the easiest of links to k-space, tho one with a C2 static won't be too bad but harder to find an empty one as they are fairly popular as C4s go.

C3s have good connections to k-space but you will get a lot of transit from higher class WH connections to deal with.

C3/4 have OK ladar/gravs but you will be missing out on the high end ones, but a C5/6 where the high end mining/gas sites are mostly found is not a good place to be if your intention is to invest in the system with a small corp.

C1 would be quite limiting but you'd probably be fairly much left alone and C2s are more useful if you are pro-actively running your w-space static for PVE or PVP.
Aldrex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-03-11 17:06:18 UTC
Rroff wrote:
I think your going to have to make a compromise somewhere:

C4s often give good seclusion but don't have the easiest of links to k-space, tho one with a C2 static won't be too bad but harder to find an empty one as they are fairly popular as C4s go.

C3s have good connections to k-space but you will get a lot of transit from higher class WH connections to deal with.

C3/4 have OK ladar/gravs but you will be missing out on the high end ones, but a C5/6 where the high end mining/gas sites are mostly found is not a good place to be if your intention is to invest in the system with a small corp.

C1 would be quite limiting but you'd probably be fairly much left alone and C2s are more useful if you are pro-actively running your w-space static for PVE or PVP.



What would the limitations of C1/C2 be, ignoring obvious limitations on sleepers?
Malception
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-03-11 17:44:41 UTC
C1s only connect to k-space and don't have very good resources available, but they would provide you with the least exposure to swarms of ships due to the very low transferable mass on their wormholes.

C2s will have slightly better resources, but their real benefit is that they have dual statics, so you get easy access to k-space and the ability to farm your static exit. If you don't plan on doing that then I'd suggest looking elsewhere.

C3s will give you good resources since you're going to be solo. They have higher mass limitations allowing for more ships, but in most cases a well-setup dickstar will cause wouldbe attackers to go elsewhere in search of easier targets.

C4s will never let you escape.

C5s are hellmode.

C6s... setting a large tower here solo would certainly draw attention, but there's a slight chance it would be viewed as an elaborate trap and be left alone. There's also a slight chance it would be stolen during the setup process and you'd be given a free ride on the hi-sec express.
Cavilha
Tupy Industries
#11 - 2013-03-11 18:39:05 UTC
Aldrex wrote:
Malception wrote:
Are you going to be doing this solo or coming in with associates? Wormholes to/from class 1 systems are the only ones unable to support the transit of battleships, but you'll find the resources available in those systems to be somewhat less than desirable with respect to profits. You said you're not interested in Sleepers, though. What exactly are you looking to do in w-space?


As I said, I want a home base of operations to do whatever I want within. I wanna mine, manufacture, and build POS's. Wormholes offer me seclusion (relatively) with access to High sec and no restrictions on what I can build/mine.

Also, yes I'll be solo if you hadn't guessed from my above statement.

Edit: Also, I suppose BS would be acceptable, just so long as I'm not entertaining several of them, nor any capital ships. I wanna be able to rely on my POS's being able to defend themselves, and generally cap ships and BS can mess that up quite a lot. Limiting ships also allows me to focus my defenses better. I understand if a 200 person corp comes in with frigates, well, my POS is toast, but still, I wanna keep it safe from small gangs, which is easier to do if they don't have dreadnoughts especially.


C1 with HS static.

You will not need more than that.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-03-11 19:20:55 UTC
Cavilha wrote:
Aldrex wrote:
Malception wrote:
Are you going to be doing this solo or coming in with associates? Wormholes to/from class 1 systems are the only ones unable to support the transit of battleships, but you'll find the resources available in those systems to be somewhat less than desirable with respect to profits. You said you're not interested in Sleepers, though. What exactly are you looking to do in w-space?


As I said, I want a home base of operations to do whatever I want within. I wanna mine, manufacture, and build POS's. Wormholes offer me seclusion (relatively) with access to High sec and no restrictions on what I can build/mine.

Also, yes I'll be solo if you hadn't guessed from my above statement.

Edit: Also, I suppose BS would be acceptable, just so long as I'm not entertaining several of them, nor any capital ships. I wanna be able to rely on my POS's being able to defend themselves, and generally cap ships and BS can mess that up quite a lot. Limiting ships also allows me to focus my defenses better. I understand if a 200 person corp comes in with frigates, well, my POS is toast, but still, I wanna keep it safe from small gangs, which is easier to do if they don't have dreadnoughts especially.


C1 with HS static.

You will not need more than that.



I would personally advise a C2 with a high-sec simply because there are more of them (easier to get lost in the ranks) and a C1 highsec will only allow ships with masses under 20 million KG; therefore no orcas, no battleships; basically nothing above the mass of a battlecruiser.

Set your tower up like a Death Star or D*ck star and use a large tower (Amarr or Minmatar), and you shouldn't have any issues. If somebody tries to move in on you, hire somebody to kill them for you.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.

Vivian Marcos
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-03-11 21:39:33 UTC
As Svodola Darkfury said, use a death or d8ck star pos (google them :) ). Dont use caldari POSs if you use a death star though... Another thing to consider is
A) since you are just mining, you could find someone to partner with that wants to do sleeper sites/pvp and set up in the same WH. Benefits in numbers etc.

B) If you pick a WH like a c2/high/c3 or a c2/high/c4, chances are you will be living with someone else because those WHs are VERY popular. I dont know about c1/high though, i'd imagine that there are a lot as well.

C) even if you can't bring a BS in, as you must have realized, you can build a battleship in there (your trying to manufacture for god's sake! you should have realized that).... and you can build capital ships in there. There are plenty of c1/c2/c3/c4's that have capitals built and used, so you are never safe from any ship.

Hey sky, get back to work! U 2 cips....

Marsan
#14 - 2013-03-11 23:56:31 UTC
Honestly this sound like a bad idea. The money makers in wspace are PI (more isk/hour than amount of isk) and sleepers. It used to be high end ores and gas were quite profitable. Current gas prices are pretty low with the advent of the Venture. The high end ores also have taken a huge dive in the wake of the drone poo nerf. Not to mention that a given system won't always have a ladar or grav site. I've seen weeks go by between grav. Mining is a nice thing to do a quiet day when you don't have more profitable things to do, but I'd argue you might as well setup in a .5 system in High Sec and mine there for the profit you'd make in wspace...

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-03-12 00:18:17 UTC
if you just want to hideout and have your own little home go with a c1 with a static highsec. Sounds like that is what you want. the ore is still much better than in high sec and c1s are pretty undesirable. c2 you will have to deal with multiple statics and more traffic. just my 2 cents. good luck
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-03-12 01:08:25 UTC
Aldrex wrote:
I think I'd want a Pulsar simply for the increase shielding for my POS's (my primary point of revenue and focus in this space).

good luck with that.... considering WH anoms have no effect on any structures.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#17 - 2013-03-13 14:36:52 UTC
Aldrex wrote:
Malception wrote:
Are you going to be doing this solo or coming in with associates? Wormholes to/from class 1 systems are the only ones unable to support the transit of battleships, but you'll find the resources available in those systems to be somewhat less than desirable with respect to profits. You said you're not interested in Sleepers, though. What exactly are you looking to do in w-space?


As I said, I want a home base of operations to do whatever I want within. I wanna mine, manufacture, and build POS's. Wormholes offer me seclusion (relatively) with access to High sec and no restrictions on what I can build/mine.

Also, yes I'll be solo if you hadn't guessed from my above statement.

Edit: Also, I suppose BS would be acceptable, just so long as I'm not entertaining several of them, nor any capital ships. I wanna be able to rely on my POS's being able to defend themselves, and generally cap ships and BS can mess that up quite a lot. Limiting ships also allows me to focus my defenses better. I understand if a 200 person corp comes in with frigates, well, my POS is toast, but still, I wanna keep it safe from small gangs, which is easier to do if they don't have dreadnoughts especially.


You won't be able to mine reliably in w-space. If you're focusing on manufacturing, at least go for a C2 or C3, because hauling enough minerals for manufacturing in a C1 isn't fun. An Orca will be your friend. If you want to mine every day, w-space won't do much for you there.

If you're thinking you'll be able to mine the bulk of your minerals in the hole itself conveniently...no. Unless you want to take a heavy refining loss, you will need to haul out to k-space and refine it somewhere that you have perfect refine. It'll be awfully bulky without a Rorqual to compress the ore. And even then, depending on what you're making and the pace at which you make it, you may not be able to keep up with your own demand. The Rorqual is also a coinflip: you make yourself a more attractive target and it's a pain to build one, but if you are all about exporting ore, then you want that ore compression.

You will need to kill Sleepers to get at the gravs and ladars, so you should be prepared for some pewing and salvaging. You should also be prepared to shoot back at people who shoot you. Don't be that guy who loses a battlecruiser to a covops because he panics.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-03-13 14:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Aldrex wrote:
Rroff wrote:
POSes (and sleepers) aren't affected by WH system effects (aside from random bugs) so POSes in a Pulsar don't get additional shield HP.


I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Suppose I need to go look at the effects again then. That's why I made this thread though.


Blackholes work to a POS's advantage no matter fleet composition. Just have more than a few webs to slow those frigates down enough that your pos guns can actually hit them. Otherwise, a frigate can be used to run your pos out of ammo.

As to class of w-space system with a k-space connection. That's a big topic, many to chose from. Security? Well, higher class systems open up to lower class systems all the time. So you're likely to find someone opening to you who will pretty much lock down your system for the day.

Mining and manufacturing......both activities best done from k-space. Mining: lots of volume. You're going to need to run a refinery. In the best case a mobile refinery will cut your productivity by 25% and it can't be skilled away. So, do you take that hit? Or do you move out the ore to refine. You're going to want a HS static if you're moving lots of ore. You can also build a rorqual for compression but be aware than some groups moving through your system, if they see it, will burn you down just to ransom you for it.

Manufacturing, it's cheaper in k-space. What more is there to say?

How about gas reacting and/or ninjaing c5 mag/radar's for t3's components? Gas reacting and T3 reverse engineering can only be done in a POS. So, a c2 -> c5 & null might be what you're looking for. You'll have access to higher quality gases in the C5 for polymer reactions and access to gases from null for drug reactions. "But how do I get to hs?" you ask...well my friend, w-space has enough activity that you'll never go more than a few days without a route. If you're willing to roll your static c5 and/or null then it would not be hard to find a viable route anytime you choose.

Don't ban me, bro!

Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-03-13 15:48:46 UTC
Aldrex wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
If your pos is your primary concern, you are doing it wrong.


That may be the case that I'm doing it wrong, but this is EVE, and that's my right. I wanna create a large POS, and I wanna focus on it, and it's the point of all this. Sure it may end up being an unprofitable venture, and unorthodox, but I just wanna focus on a POS and would like it to not die at the slightest changing of cosmic winds.

This is EVE. It's a Sandbox. What we each wish to do is entirely on us however profitable or unorthodox it may be (though I'm certainly hoping this will be a profitable and long term venture naturally).




It is your right but you need to learn how w-space works. As someone already mentioned the POS and the Sleepers are not affected by WH effects. Furthermore, if you want a w-space system with a static k-space connection it means you will not be going into a C4, C5 or C6. It also means that any wormhole effect will be weak and (in case of c1s) almost negligible. (W-space effect bonuses increase with the class of the w-space system). Third, you want to be able to defend your POS but the k-space exit is a massive liability for that. Even if your attacker collapsed the static by bringing in a few battleships, all they need to do is scan out the next k-space static and bring in more.

You are more then welcome to do it, but it seems you would be better off by anchoring a POS in high sec or low sec.
Leetha Layne
#20 - 2013-03-14 00:01:48 UTC
It might be wise to do some day tripping so you can learn how w-space works. You would be surprised at the amount of traffic that sometimes occurs. There are corps whose only income is blapping folks in WHs. Especially solo folks.