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[Odyssey] T1 Frigate Polish Pass and Naglfar fix

First post
Author
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#381 - 2013-04-15 14:47:54 UTC
Deacon Ix wrote:
I
My main issue it that a long time ago I thought that the Nag was the best looking ship in hte game so I created a toon with the sole purpose of excelling at flying it.

(the honest reason for having every Nag skill at lvl V is the reason anyone does anything in eve - Because I can)



There's a book called, "Who moved my cheese?"

I think everyone should read it.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#382 - 2013-04-17 00:17:58 UTC
The punisher should have it's damage bonus swapped for an optimal bonus. It's a de-facto DPS upgrade (since you can use multifreq or conflag), and works far better with the Amarr brick strategy. Basically, I may not catch you, but I can always HIT you. It's lack of a 3rd mid and inability to dictate range are compensate for by the removal of the need to dictate in the first place. The built in penalties of lasers (cap, tracking) give it a built in counter.

I'd also suggest boosting NOS out to scram range- gives it a little something to compete with neut's for the value in fitting one. Yes, I have the punisher in mind with this, but in general neither module is useful on frigates and I think the modules themselves need looked at.
Dani Lizardov
Eclipse Pulsar
WE FORM V0LTA
#383 - 2013-04-17 09:46:36 UTC
NERF The t1 frigates or FIX the T2 once please!!!

Why?
T1 Frigate Vs Interceptor
+More scan resolution
+More slots (utility)
+More pg / cpu
+ More SPEED ??? WTF....
- Less tank
- No signature bonus with MWD

Well in the past we had the Dramiel with similar scan resolution to interceptors... What did CCP do?
NERF!
Now we are back , as it was before!

CCP You are killing your own game!
What will make a pilot invest more time in EVE if not, learning for the T2 superior ship!

I very much welcome the changes on the T1 stuff, making them Useful!
But you are taking too much TIME!!! Mean wile you are destroying, roles that the T2 ships use to have.
Atm You can register, activate do 9$ with the slasher bonus... Have some fun for two mounts then start skilling up mining barges :) lol. Just because there is no benefit in skilling up the interceptors.

NERF the Scan resolution to 800-900!! Lets start there.

androch
LitlCorp
#384 - 2013-04-17 12:43:16 UTC
even with a damage bonus you still handicap the naglfar to do less damage than its 3 turreted counterparts in what way do you consider this a fair exchange?
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#385 - 2013-04-17 15:04:45 UTC
androch wrote:
even with a damage bonus you still handicap the naglfar to do less damage than its 3 turreted counterparts in what way do you consider this a fair exchange?


Did you just fall from a stupid tree?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#386 - 2013-04-17 15:23:41 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
androch wrote:
even with a damage bonus you still handicap the naglfar to do less damage than its 3 turreted counterparts in what way do you consider this a fair exchange?


Did you just fall from a stupid tree?


dont mind him , he is just a matar , we all know they arent good at math
Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#387 - 2013-04-17 15:43:13 UTC
Captain Nares wrote:

CCP Fozzie wrote:

RIFTER:
+1 PWG
+50 Armor


How does this solve problems?

The problem is that rifter cannot kite blaster ships (incursus) on the end of scram range as it did before and as AC platforms are supposed to do. It is too slow for this and its DPS (and damage projection) is no more enough for this. Speed and DPS, two main causes.
Small autocannons (or at least rifter as AC platform) loose their superiority in versatility parameter to blasters loaded with nulls (especially ones coupled with a pair of ambit rigs).

I know that small blasters vs ACs balance is a complicated question, but now it is answered by CCP with noticeable bias to blasters.
My opinion that small blasters were OK even before boosts.

Hope you'll understand...


spot on!
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#388 - 2013-04-18 13:35:30 UTC
androch wrote:
even with a damage bonus you still handicap the naglfar to do less damage than its 3 turreted counterparts in what way do you consider this a fair exchange?


what?
shoot with two make dmg like three. what is your problem?

is +1 PG and 50 armor still the word for Rifter?
i'd really like it to be something else than a bad slasher.
Bemoteajh
Dot.Inc
#389 - 2013-04-18 14:47:38 UTC
SCREW YOU I LOVE MY MISSILE ON THE NAG!
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#390 - 2013-04-18 18:00:40 UTC
I don't want to be a nag (pun intended) I REALLLY love the changes since my pvp alt is polishing off skills for one right now and all but I just noticed, there is no drone bay, not eve enough for a flight of small drones.

just my 5 cents
Shingorash
Sons of Luminaire
#391 - 2013-04-19 14:53:10 UTC
Tracking Naglfar's are go, depleted urainium and tracking mods, om nom nom.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#392 - 2013-04-22 02:21:26 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
i'd really like it to be something else than a bad slasher.


Yes, rifter needs further improvements. More speed and agility bringing it just under slasher levels would be good.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#393 - 2013-04-22 02:25:56 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:

Because citadel missiles can't even hit a supercarrier moving. It can't even hit another capital drifting in siege/triage.

So you have two weapons that can hit, and two that can't. The ship itself is completely broken.


So the missiles don't work so your answer is to scrap them completely? Bad idea, and I hope this is just a temporary fix until CCP fix capital missiles and the Naglfar can get its dual weapon system back.
Taoist Dragon
SHAVED
#394 - 2013-04-22 05:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Taoist Dragon
Vegare wrote:
Captain Nares wrote:

CCP Fozzie wrote:

RIFTER:
+1 PWG
+50 Armor


How does this solve problems?

The problem is that rifter cannot kite blaster ships (incursus) on the end of scram range as it did before and as AC platforms are supposed to do. It is too slow for this and its DPS (and damage projection) is no more enough for this. Speed and DPS, two main causes.
Small autocannons (or at least rifter as AC platform) loose their superiority in versatility parameter to blasters loaded with nulls (especially ones coupled with a pair of ambit rigs).

I know that small blasters vs ACs balance is a complicated question, but now it is answered by CCP with noticeable bias to blasters.
My opinion that small blasters were OK even before boosts.

Hope you'll understand...


spot on!


Not this.

I have no problem out speeding blaster Incurus or Merlins and kiting within scram range while flying a rifter. Yes I'd like more speed on it but it is not required just stop fitting plates to your rifters and go full active armour tank and you're golden (well rusty anyways) even with null loaded I still out DPS the standard incursus fit at 8km when using barrage.

Or better still use a cap stable neut/SAR rifter to murder those incursii all day long.

The problem with the rifter is that everyone still just fits it cookie cutter style and can't WTFBBQPWN everyone now. It is a very versitile ship still just just ahve to learn how to fly it and how to fit it to counter certain ships.

Adapt and Overcome as some very famous people in black BDU's say. Twisted

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#395 - 2013-04-22 17:30:17 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
but I just noticed, there is no drone bay, not eve enough for a flight of small drones.

just my 5 cents

Dreads intentionally have no drone bay.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

androch
LitlCorp
#396 - 2013-04-23 12:44:04 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
androch wrote:
even with a damage bonus you still handicap the naglfar to do less damage than its 3 turreted counterparts in what way do you consider this a fair exchange?


what?
shoot with two make dmg like three. what is your problem?

is +1 PG and 50 armor still the word for Rifter?
i'd really like it to be something else than a bad slasher.



shoot with 2 damage like 3... dps like 2... higher damage way lower rate of fire on artillery making its dps crap compared to the other dreads
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#397 - 2013-04-23 13:01:37 UTC
androch wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
androch wrote:
even with a damage bonus you still handicap the naglfar to do less damage than its 3 turreted counterparts in what way do you consider this a fair exchange?


what?
shoot with two make dmg like three. what is your problem?

is +1 PG and 50 armor still the word for Rifter?
i'd really like it to be something else than a bad slasher.



shoot with 2 damage like 3... dps like 2... higher damage way lower rate of fire on artillery making its dps crap compared to the other dreads

The hell are you even talking about? Nothing has been done to the rate of fire. You're shooting with effectively 3 guns for the price of 2. You get the damage and dps of 3 guns, whether you use artillery or autocannons. And if you use autocannons the dps is easily comparable to the Moros.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#398 - 2013-04-24 12:19:16 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:

Because citadel missiles can't even hit a supercarrier moving. It can't even hit another capital drifting in siege/triage.

So you have two weapons that can hit, and two that can't. The ship itself is completely broken.


So the missiles don't work so your answer is to scrap them completely? Bad idea, and I hope this is just a temporary fix until CCP fix capital missiles and the Naglfar can get its dual weapon system back.



They made a fix that made the ship better, if not the best dread in the game.

CCP wants to do away with split weapon systems, the nag will not get missiles back.

dealwithit.gif

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

androch
LitlCorp
#399 - 2013-04-25 07:58:03 UTC
just drop the damage bonus and give it a third turret, removing the missiles is a halfassed fix
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#400 - 2013-04-25 09:15:22 UTC
I would like to point out something else.

After all that tiercide and buff to t1 frigs etc, there is one t1 frig that got out reaaaally bad.

It is the VIGIL!!!

Who flies a vigil?? Look at its counter parts. Maulus, Griffin, Crucifier.....all of them are being used. But vigil??

The thing is: Vigil doesn't really have a role as target painting ship. Target painters are useful for letting larger ships hit smaller ships. In a frig gang you are not really concerned about smaller ships. In a cruiser+ gang you'll have bellicose for painting role.

So please switch painting bonus on vigil to something else OR give some other type of buff (Moar Drones? Dmg bonus to missiles?) to it so it can be a viable ship.

Also....about frigs and progression lines in general:

Minmatar Ship Progression (Roughly)

Rifter > Thrasher > Rupture > Hurricane > Tempest
Breacher > Talwar > Bellicose > Cyclone > Typhoon
Slasher> - > Stabber > Tornado > Maelstorm

the BS part is a bit mixed up atm. But the roles are similar except the last line.

What I propose is:
Change Rifter damage bonus to ROF bonus and give it slightly higher base speed (and that 50 armor + 1pg too). Would be more in line with the first line (I call it Brawling AC line)

Remove Slasher and Stabber damage bonus and give them full rack of weapons (+ some fitting so that they can actually mount the guns). Give Slasher a falloff bonus and stabber a tracking bonus. Remove the damage bonus from tornado (Actually remove damage bonuses from all attack BC while you are at it) and give it a tracking bonus instead.

So that the third line becomes the alpha line.