Warfare & Tactics

Why is it pirates and the likes think they are hard core?. I'm on the fence, not a carebear.. not a ''hardcore'' pirate. But,
from where i am sitting, it's actualy the carebears who I'd define as hardcore.


Few examples of why i think carebears are hard core.

Incursion runner sitting in his 2bil+ shiny. Carebear.

But, this guy is at a real risk of being ganked. He knows it, i know it, you know it.. we all know it. Yet, they still run the incursions in the face of losing a 2bil+ ship to a few alts who care not.

Mission runners/explorers. Carebears.

But, they are running prodictable tank and dmg type.. and should you get on them they are a free kill. He knows it, i know it, you know it, we all know it. But still, in he jumps.

Few examples of why i think pirates are carebears.

Gate camp, spent the last few hours ganking haulers and random solo players. Alt on the other side see's a fleet land on gate that is fit and set to pvp. The pirates tuck tail and run. Hard to the core.


Hmm, tbh i ran out of examples. These 3 kinde cover 90% of eve pvp ;p.



Flame on pirates.

Confirming that putting 2bil asset in high sec is more hardcore than in low sec.

The nullsec pirate is smart. He realizes that he would die against a fleet when he was just easily catching fools who would warp without thought to the next gate.

The incursion pilot still pilots his expensive ship, because he trusts no one will kill him. The explorer in lowsec trusts in luck and his capabilities that he won't be caught.

Whenever you undock, you should be prepared to lose your ship. No matter what you are in, or where you are flying.

I think you're applying your labels wrong...

There is one MAJOR spectrum in EvE:

The Risk-Takers vs the Risk Adverse:

Most of EvE's client base exist somewhere in the sepctrum between the two extremes.. Unfortunately, most swing heavily towards the Coward side of the spectrum, usually too risk adverse to engage in an activities that might result in losses. This includes:

The LvL 4 Missioner that only runs missions over and over... never willing to venture out of Concord's security blanket. They throw a hissy-fit when someone forces them into PvP (be it suicide ganking or wardecing), and feel the game shouldn't allow it.

The Nullsec Ratter that spends hours blowing up NPC's in anomalies... never willing to undock/uncloak if a potential hostile enters system. They throw a hissy-fit anytime someone parks an AFK cloaker in system, and feel the game mechanics should allow them to create 100% safe systems free of hostiles... even in nullsec...

Gate Campers that spend hours blowing up easy prety that falls into their trap.... Never willing to fight unless they have overwhelming advantage. They throw a hissy-fit anytime someone lights a cyno and bridges in a fleet on top of their gate camp, and feel the game mechanics should inhibit hotdropping.

In general, you need to ask and quantify, "what is putting your ship at risk?", to truly see where you fit on this spectrum. Things like known NPC aggression is very rarely a viable risk source (When it is unknown.... and spawns are potent enough to kill you... then they may count as a viable risk source). In general, the primary sources of risk in this game come from other players...

Your adversity to risk, however, is also heavily influenced by your motivations (i.e. rewards). This caveat takes the form of: "What are you willing to risk losing your ship for? "

Are you willing to lose your ship to defend some space claim and/or asset?

Are you willing to lose your ship with the hope of taking out one opponent before the rest destroy you?

Are you willing to lose your ship in a "good fight"?

Are you willing to lose your ship with the hope of a fancy killmail?

Are you willing to lose your ship to cause enemy strife?

Are you willing to lose your ship to test/prefect some new tactic?

If this was a linear scale between two extremes.. one end would be self defense of your own assets and the other end would be offensive in nature, usually to "dominate" others.

People are generally willing to risk more in self-defense than in offensive actions...

Just like in RL, risk takers are good for society... the risk adverse are lame...

IMO 'Hardcore' defines HOW you play eve not what you actually do in eve.

This applied to pirating, missions, exploration or whatever.

Hardcore is about intensity of activity. You log in and grind lvl 4 missions for hours on end, never stopping - hardcore.
You gate camp a low sec entry for hours attacking almost everything coming through - hardcore.
You spend hours moving spheres around the system map to find that juicy complex to run for nice shiny lootz - hardcore.


That is very different to the risk accepting, risk takers and the risk averse. You can be any combination of the risk profiles and hardcore at the same time.

IMO

Risk taker + hardcore :
These are your career soloists (Ture solo, not boosted, alted to the max) Yes they do exist.
Also your Fight generators in pvp corps who are constantly out looking ofr fights or organiseing fleets for roams, raid etc.

Risk Accepting + Hardcore:
These are you low sec and null ninja explorers. They put in hours of 'work' in hostile space to find the nice lootz. They accept the risks by being out there but they don't go looking for risk and they try to minimise the chances they'll get caught.

Risk Averse + Hardcore:
High sec mission runners in blinged out boats. Yes there is a risk of ganking or war deccing but it is very minimal and if there is any inkling that this is going on they dock up.

I'm not comenting on whether I think these are good or bad, just different ways of defining what is 'hardcore'

I myself am in the casual risk taker category generally. When in game I'm generally out ther trying to get fights (consensual or not) and actively put my ship/pod on the line to have a fight. Some are good fights against competent opponents others are ganks against the more bearlike population.

The guy undocking in Jita in a combat ship to go on a solo roam is not taking any risks at all...

He is not expecting to come back with this ship. He has taken steps to minimize the cost of the fittings, purchased it at as low a price as he can get, and is in an empty jump clone. That's not a risk. That is a highly calculated EXPENSE for a night of pew pew. The only risk he is taking is that he won't get a gudfite before he gets podded. The guy doing it with a booster alt is at the very least risking his booster ship+pod.

The guy running missions in a 5 Bil nightmare is mostly just oblivious to the fact he can get ganked. But on some level they are aware they can lose it, yet still undock in it. Investing that much capital into a relatively small income increase shows a lot of dedication. Min maxing is at the core of hardcore game play. If perpetual level 4 highsec missioning is your thing...

The industrialists, those guys take it to the extreme. Multi box 30 accounts to mine with, calculate gank profitability on hauler loads to eliminate risks, spend more time with spreadsheets than most combat pilots do on ETF. They will even stay docked up for weeks, take down their POS, drop or even close corp to avoid a wardec, etc etc etc. Now THAT's Hardcore.

There is NO risk in Eve.

pixels get blown up! nothing of any 'real' value.

If you take it too seriously then you probably should be playing a GAME!

That is not entirely true. You see, those pixels cost you something to acquire. They take Time (ISK) or Money (PLEX).

So when pixels get blown up, that generally represents you losing either $$ or time spent farming ISK by (insert boring PvE activity you would rather not be doing)

Since we all know that Time is Money, we can conclude that pixels blowing up have a real value that can be measured in $. Especially when the ISK you spent the time earning can so easily be attributed a $ value through PLEX. You didn't just lose a Battlecruiser. You lost $3.


Having said that, I believe ships are built to go pop and do my fair share to contribute to that end. Being space rich is like being a dying millionaire with no heirs to leave it for. You can give it away to noobs (charity), drool over your wallet balance till you croak, or just spend it on hookers and blow while you can still get it up. I prefer the latter.

Stop being a space **** ;p

Me?
I was just being nice. :(

Your thread doesnt even apply to me. :)