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I don't understand how people fit guardians.
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Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-03-12 23:42:02 UTC
Ok, there have been a lot of truly terrible fits suggested here and a few good ones.
Here are some important guardian fitting rules:

Never (and I do mean never, ever) fit an 800mm plate
Never (and I do mean never, ever) fit a low slot fitting mod
Always fit at least 1 ECCM (with low numbers you may want 2)
Never fit more than 1 EANM
Fit ACR rigs
Only T2 the reps if you have left over fittings.

As for fits themselves, the thing they most depend on is if you can afford T2 ACR rigs or not.
Guardians should have 2x T2 rigs.
Note that you won't get a T2 plate on there without a PG implant or compromising the fit.
You will need faction hardeners on a lot of fits, theyre cheap.

Here is a good guardian fit:
Quote:
[Guardian, Logi 5 PVP]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II

Needs a 3% PG implant.
If you don't have one, M4 the plate and fit 2x T2 reps.

Here's a cheap fit:
Quote:
[Guardian, Logi 5_ Dirt Cheap]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

If youre logi 4 you can fit a med cap transfer instead of the med rep.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-03-13 08:00:11 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Ok, there have been a lot of truly terrible fits suggested here and a few good ones.
Here are some important guardian fitting rules:

Never (and I do mean never, ever) fit an 800mm plate
Never (and I do mean never, ever) fit a low slot fitting mod
Always fit at least 1 ECCM (with low numbers you may want 2)
Never fit more than 1 EANM
Fit ACR rigs
Only T2 the reps if you have left over fittings.
.


Please do explain why thoes rules are true.

To OP, people use 800mm plate augorors because they can't fit a 1600mm plate on it.
NEVER DROP THE AB for another ECCM the AB might save you and you'll be able to keep speed going. 45 Radar Compensation is good enough.

Quote:
[Augoror, RR ]
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I


Or you can use this fit. so you can have a 1600mm plate on it, since 1600mm plates are important, because that buffer is going to save you.

Unless you're in a huge null gang where you got triage carriers anyway, don't bother with it.

Quote:
[Augoror, RR ]
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II



I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#23 - 2013-03-13 17:46:19 UTC
culo duro wrote:


Please do explain why thoes rules are true.





Because we are talking about Guardians not Augorors you dunce.
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-03-13 20:08:36 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
culo duro wrote:


Please do explain why thoes rules are true.





Because we are talking about Guardians not Augorors you dunce.


But that's not a reason, if your Guardian is getting alpha'd and insta popped you shouldn't be using guardians you should be using Archons.

If you need that 7,5k EHP to survive an alpha strike over higher resist, you're doing it wrong. Your logi shouldn't be in the danger zone, it should be 50KM off. If you can't keep your enemies away so they can't alpha it, you should have brought a ******* archon.

If you put a 800mm plate on something that's not meant to be hit, but it's gotta be ready for an alpha strike (Which only BS or Attack BCs can do) that speed is going to help you. Transversals?

Sorry but you're a god damn idiot, i asked for a explanation, i get a "Just because everyone else does it DUUUH".

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-03-13 22:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
culo duro wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
culo duro wrote:

Please do explain why thoes rules are true.

Because we are talking about Guardians not Augorors you dunce.

But that's not a reason, if your Guardian is getting alpha'd and insta popped you shouldn't be using guardians you should be using Archons.

If you need that 7,5k EHP to survive an alpha strike over higher resist, you're doing it wrong. Your logi shouldn't be in the danger zone, it should be 50KM off. If you can't keep your enemies away so they can't alpha it, you should have brought a ******* archon.

If you put a 800mm plate on something that's not meant to be hit, but it's gotta be ready for an alpha strike (Which only BS or Attack BCs can do) that speed is going to help you. Transversals?

Sorry but you're a god damn idiot, i asked for a explanation, i get a "Just because everyone else does it DUUUH".

you don't fly guardians do you?
guardians are not exactly fast, they will and do get tackled easily and MUST be able to survive under heavy close range fire.

if you want your logi to kite, fly shield and use scimmis.

PS: for the record, dropping to an 800mm plate is a 19k EHP loss, dropping a low for a fitting mod is a 10k EHP drop and you also lose resists which you vitally need.

(no idea where you got 7.5k)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#26 - 2013-03-13 22:43:24 UTC
culo duro wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
culo duro wrote:


Please do explain why thoes rules are true.





Because we are talking about Guardians not Augorors you dunce.


But that's not a reason, if your Guardian is getting alpha'd and insta popped you shouldn't be using guardians you should be using Archons.

If you need that 7,5k EHP to survive an alpha strike over higher resist, you're doing it wrong. Your logi shouldn't be in the danger zone, it should be 50KM off. If you can't keep your enemies away so they can't alpha it, you should have brought a ******* archon.

If you put a 800mm plate on something that's not meant to be hit, but it's gotta be ready for an alpha strike (Which only BS or Attack BCs can do) that speed is going to help you. Transversals?

Sorry but you're a god damn idiot, i asked for a explanation, i get a "Just because everyone else does it DUUUH".



We are not talking about archons either you downs infested highsec station monkey. The OP asked how to fit a guardian, hence the topic being about guardians. If we were talking about carriers this would be a carrier thread now wouldn't it.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-03-13 22:46:20 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
We are not talking about archons either you downs infested highsec station monkey.

this got me weird looks at work :P

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Ginger Barbarella
#28 - 2013-03-13 23:08:16 UTC
Wow, a thread with truly useful info! Awesome! Keep up the good work, you Downs-infested station monkeys!! :-p

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-03-14 07:44:56 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
culo duro wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
culo duro wrote:

Please do explain why thoes rules are true.

Because we are talking about Guardians not Augorors you dunce.

But that's not a reason, if your Guardian is getting alpha'd and insta popped you shouldn't be using guardians you should be using Archons.

If you need that 7,5k EHP to survive an alpha strike over higher resist, you're doing it wrong. Your logi shouldn't be in the danger zone, it should be 50KM off. If you can't keep your enemies away so they can't alpha it, you should have brought a ******* archon.

If you put a 800mm plate on something that's not meant to be hit, but it's gotta be ready for an alpha strike (Which only BS or Attack BCs can do) that speed is going to help you. Transversals?

Sorry but you're a god damn idiot, i asked for a explanation, i get a "Just because everyone else does it DUUUH".

you don't fly guardians do you?
guardians are not exactly fast, they will and do get tackled easily and MUST be able to survive under heavy close range fire.

if you want your logi to kite, fly shield and use scimmis.

PS: for the record, dropping to an 800mm plate is a 19k EHP loss, dropping a low for a fitting mod is a 10k EHP drop and you also lose resists which you vitally need.

(no idea where you got 7.5k)


Unless you fit slaves on your Logi toon you get 7.5k EHP Less by putting on a 800mm plate.

Quote:
[Guardian, 4/2 Rep]
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-EM Pump II

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#30 - 2013-03-14 07:51:49 UTC
My experience with 800mm plate guardians is that they're bad and you should feel bad for bringing one.

The first thing you put on a nice, new, freshly unpackaged Guardian is a 1600mm plate. Then you match the rest of the fit to whatever role you have in mind.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-03-14 08:01:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
My experience with 800mm plate guardians is that they're bad and you should feel bad for bringing one.

The first thing you put on a nice, new, freshly unpackaged Guardian is a 1600mm plate. Then you match the rest of the fit to whatever role you have in mind.


You're saying the rest as everyone else "It's bad" but you don't say why you want a 1600mm plate.
I can get higher overall resist if i put on a 800mm plate, without too much lose in EHP.

A Guardian is meant to work in pairs yes? So o why do you want to buffer tank it so much that, that 7,5K EHP more you get out of a 1600mm plate will give you less Tankability on it. That 7,5k EHP isn't going to save your guardian.

I asked for a reason, all i get is "Hurr durr everyone else does so".

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#32 - 2013-03-14 08:47:20 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Ok, there have been a lot of truly terrible fits suggested here and a few good ones.
Here are some important guardian fitting rules:

Never (and I do mean never, ever) fit an 800mm plate
Never (and I do mean never, ever) fit a low slot fitting mod
Always fit at least 1 ECCM (with low numbers you may want 2)
Never fit more than 1 EANM
Fit ACR rigs
Only T2 the reps if you have left over fittings.

As for fits themselves, the thing they most depend on is if you can afford T2 ACR rigs or not.
Guardians should have 2x T2 rigs.
Note that you won't get a T2 plate on there without a PG implant or compromising the fit.
You will need faction hardeners on a lot of fits, theyre cheap.



The rules are not always true. They are valid for larger fleet PvP operations.

In PvE (incursions) you can drop ECCM for sensor booster (kundalini manifest) or even tracking link. Fitting more than 1 EANM also makes sense especially if you go for deadspace ones (for incursions).

800mm plate also makes some sense in special cases, but those are quite rare so the rule of thumb is 1600mm meta4 plate.
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-03-14 08:59:29 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Ok, there have been a lot of truly terrible fits suggested here and a few good ones.
Here are some important guardian fitting rules:

Never (and I do mean never, ever) fit an 800mm plate
Never (and I do mean never, ever) fit a low slot fitting mod
Always fit at least 1 ECCM (with low numbers you may want 2)
Never fit more than 1 EANM
Fit ACR rigs
Only T2 the reps if you have left over fittings.

As for fits themselves, the thing they most depend on is if you can afford T2 ACR rigs or not.
Guardians should have 2x T2 rigs.
Note that you won't get a T2 plate on there without a PG implant or compromising the fit.
You will need faction hardeners on a lot of fits, theyre cheap.



The rules are not always true. They are valid for larger fleet PvP operations.

In PvE (incursions) you can drop ECCM for sensor booster (kundalini manifest) or even tracking link. Fitting more than 1 EANM also makes sense especially if you go for deadspace ones (for incursions).

800mm plate also makes some sense in special cases, but those are quite rare so the rule of thumb is 1600mm meta4 plate.


I completely agree, 1600mm meta 4 plates for larger warfare, but if it's small gangs i'd fit 800mm plates.

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#34 - 2013-03-14 10:54:14 UTC
These are the fittings I tend to fly;

[Guardian, T1 Ancils]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Damage Control II

Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
10MN Afterburner II

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


[Guardian, T2 Ancils]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Armor EM Hardener

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II


And just because nobody seems to know, how to Augoror;

[Augoror, Aug]
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I

Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium 'Regard' Power Projector
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-EM Pump I


As an aside the 800 plate works on Augs because if your fighting a gang that can alpha 40K EHP in T1 cruisers your doing it wrong, these things dont have huge buffer but massive resists making reps extremely efficient.
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-03-14 11:55:42 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:

As an aside the 800 plate works on Augs because if your fighting a gang that can alpha 40K EHP in T1 cruisers your doing it wrong, these things dont have huge buffer but massive resists making reps extremely efficient.


You shouldn't be able to get a 40k Alpha strike in on any logi anyway, if that happends you're doing it wrong.

I've had my disagreements with Danny regarding fits, and i got the same about his augoror fit, however what he's saying is right. You're trying to active tank a ship. The only reason you're putting a plate on is to give time for your logi to switch, in case of **** goes down.

Say what you like but the only reason a 1600mm plate on a guardian will be worth it, is if you've got an extremely big fleet coming for, and can't keep them at range.

I fit 800 plates to my logi because i like them more agile and that little speed is worth the downgrade, because i can improve my resist profile.


Quote:
[Augoror, RR ]
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I


I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#36 - 2013-03-14 12:13:19 UTC
culo duro wrote:


To OP, people use 800mm plate augorors because they can't fit a 1600mm plate on it.







Well, there are fittings around for a 1600mm Augoror. It reps significantly less than a Guardian ofc, namely half to two thirds, however it has 48k EHP, goes slightly slower, has a slightly bigger sig, has by far superior ECCM, doesn't have any fitting issues at all, is cheap, doesn't need a shitload of skills cause Augoror capchain works (almost) skill-independent, and if i make it public it wont work anymore. :)
Takanuro
Eve Faction Trade Exchange
#37 - 2013-03-25 13:06:30 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
culo duro wrote:


To OP, people use 800mm plate augorors because they can't fit a 1600mm plate on it.







Well, there are fittings around for a 1600mm Augoror. It reps significantly less than a Guardian ofc, namely half to two thirds, however it has 48k EHP, goes slightly slower, has a slightly bigger sig, has by far superior ECCM, doesn't have any fitting issues at all, is cheap, doesn't need a shitload of skills cause Augoror capchain works (almost) skill-independent, and if i make it public it wont work anymore. :)


I've not seen a 1600mm Aug fit that is worth flying. The resist stats are normally gimped so much that the logi team would struggle to sustain any defense against reasonable dps and would instantly be the weak link in any fleet comp. And making a 200mil isk Aug to try and get round it is not worth it, you can have a Guardian fit for same isk which is better.

I have found 800mm Guardians are ok for small gang work, and because of the reduced cost it's easier to get pilots in them. Yes ACR2 1600mm Guardians are the best, but at 360mil isk for a proper fit they are not easily accessible, and can come as bit of a shock to those that have become involved with Logi due to the Augoror and it's 30mil isk price tag. That's quite a jump in commitment to the Logi role.

At least with the T2 800mm plated high resist Guardian you can move up from the Aug, have about 170mil price tag and see good benefits compared to its T1 counterpart even if its not the optimal fitting for the ship. Just need to remember its weaknesses. Hopefully a future Guardian rebalance will see it get improved bonus for reduced fitting or a pg boost.

Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#38 - 2013-04-16 00:51:16 UTC  |  Edited by: TXG SYNC
Here's an Augoror 1600 plate fit with decent resists and repping power. I fly two accounts at once, so I always have a logi buddy.


  • With All Fives: Reps about 220 raw HP/sec (Guardian reps 300-380 Logi IV-V), omni resists > 70%, 37K EHP, 561m/s.
  • With my limited two-month-old character abilities: requires one EG-603 implant. Reps 187 raw HP/sec, 33,900EHP, resists are 79%E 72.6%T 68.4%K 78.4%X, cap-stable with only one Medium transfer partner. Only 435m/s; I need to work on my afterburner skills...


Cost: about 40M ISK. That's quite a bit more than my typical Augoror cost of 16M, but nowhere near 200M! I keep waffling back and forth between keeping the quite excellent resists (In My Newbie Opinion) of the three anti-EM/Therm/Kinetic pumps, or deepening the tank with more Trimarks. Regardless, they'll be fun to try out on a faction warfare fleet roam!

The reason this build works is because the Augoror boosts repping power based on Cruiser level. So a Small remote repair with good range -- like the centii A smalls below -- can perform almost as well as a Medium, and reduces the cap transfer need substantially so you can run a fourth repper with just the one cap transfer. As a result of this posting and others I've met who have figured this out, I expect the price of centii A-type small remote armor repair systems to jump substantially...

[Augoror, Aug 1600 plate]

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
Sensor Booster II
ECCM - Radar II

Centii A-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System
Centii A-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System
Centii A-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

EDIT: As predicted, after posting this, Jita prices on the repper jumped from about 5M apiece to about 10-15M. Sol it's kind of impractical and expensive, but do-able. Wonder if CCP will nerf the Augoror to bonused medium-repper only?
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