EVE General Discussion

No. Those are the words that perfectly describe what is going on, so those are the words that are appropriate to use.

Of course not, since there are no changes there and no-one is getting anything reimbursed.

Ok, so do you complain when the discovery of a new oil field ("CCP changing the rules" in this analogy) brings the price of fuel down after you filled up on gas?

Supply and Demand has nothing to do with this. We're talking about costs, benefits, and the principle of sunk costs (you can't return the gallon of milk, the tank of gas, or your spent SP, so the cost of all of those is sunk).



Bad comparison. You're missing the "other time" part. And the part where the only difference between consumers is a temporal part. You're still complaining that Milk went on sale after you bought it.



Bad comparison again. The only difference between people buying the ability to fly an Orca is a temporal one. You chose to incur the cost of flying an orca (the same cost as everyone else is faced with) at the time you chose it. The fact that, at another time, you might be able to pay a different cost is irrelevant.

Nobody is paying a different cost to fly an Orca today than anyone else does today. The same will be true tomorrow, and so on through patch day, when nobody will be paying a different cost to fly an Orca on that day than anyone else does on that day.


Still waiting on your answer to question 1.
1) When you chose to train for an Orca, did you believe that flying the Orca was worth the ~40d training time?
a) If Yes, The only effect the change will have on you is to either reduce your training time or leave it unchanged. Why does that make you unhappy?
b) If No, then why did you chose to train for it?

Still gives them the skills and bonuses.

1. Depending on what you use it for, it's very likely that some of those SP are, in fact, useless.
2. Correct, No it won't be reimbursed.
3. 'Should' is subjective.
4. Correct, we should be getting over it by now.

Yes they did: it allowed them to inject Industrial Command ships and it allows them to fly barges at max bonuses.

Because the progression makes more sense this way. People who have trained the skill still benefit from it.

So what? And the only difference between people buying any number of things in my example above is a "people" one (SniggWaffe people get charged more for everything).

Your focus on the temporal factor here is arbitrary and contrived. If you are allowed to arbitrarily focus on the temporal factor, I'm arbitrarily allowed to focus on the "people" factor. I'm a "people person" at heart, you see?



Who says it is irrelevant? Irrelevant to who? Relevance is subjective my friend. It might be irrelevant to you, but it isn't irrelevant to me. I say the fact that you are SniggWaffe is irrelevant, and the fact that if you are another person and have to pay a different cost is irrelevant.



Under the presumption that the training time would stay the same from day to day (and I had no reason at the time to presume otherwise), yes. But only under that presumption. When I became aware that the training time wasn't staying the same, I stopped training. The training time I was paying was obviously not worth it because it is now being cut down to ~33% or whatever.



It's obvious. I wasted a lot of time and SP because of a decision by CCP to change the tech tree. That time and SP could have gone into something else. I could have been into battleships. I could have trained up market trading or whatever. There are lots of things I could have done. The SP was flushed down the toilet.

If I had known that CCP was going to do this, I would never have started training Orca. I would have waited until after they changed the tech tree, and then trained Orca.

If you want the answer to why that makes me unhappy, go into your skill queue and stop all training right now. Leave it paused for a month. Then see how happy or unhappy you are after that month. Then you will have your answer.

By the way, during the housing boom in the USA people severely overpaid for houses. How do you think that worked out for them? Wanna take a look at the record number of foreclosures sometime, the record number of houses underwater, etc?

What did some people do, btw, with their severely overvalued houses they signed up to be in? They walked away. Let the bank have it. I would walk away from sinking those SPs into Orca too, but I can't, because I wasn't paying out those SPs on a payment plan on loan from CCP. But if I had been, that's what I'd do - walk away and leave CCP holding the SPs.

I'm not against this (or any other) developer changing up tech trees and improving the game. In fact, I'm all for that. I just think that players should be compensated for decisions made by the developer (rearrangement of the tech tree) that affect them.

I know the temporal factor isn't important to you. And that's fine - betting in Vegas or doing any number of other things isn't important to me. Everybody's different. But I say it is perfectly reasonable to expect and to ask that CCP make folks "whole" who think the temporal factor is important and who want to be made whole.

I think the technical term is "bait and switch."

I was one of those. Just couldn't face having mining barge in my character sheet.

I may train it now, just have to get over having mining director etc.

You really should make a separate thread if you feel this way.

I do not see a need for the making of general rules on how CCP has to do things, but find it better to discuss this for each case individually.

Significantly? You mean like future navy frig pilots needing 8 times less SP to fly them? Totally reimburse. Or battleship pilots needing twice as little training in the future.

I also want free SP because I need to train useless skills to fly caps in the future.

Really mate, these decisions are not, and will not be based on what you perceive as useless.