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ORE ship reimbursement and upcoming expansion

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#461 - 2013-03-11 14:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Whitehound wrote:
It is irrelevant. Just as it is irrelevant for the validity of a decision if it was based on good or bad reasons
…except, of course, that bad decisions are not a valid reason for reimbursement. You made the error; you live with it. In fact, suffering from your bad decisions is fully intentional. So no, what you get is quite relevant — you get what you pay for, and if you choose to pay for the wrong thing then tough luck. Don't worry, though, you get to keep it if you ever need it in the future.

Quote:
a decision keep its validity as long as the environment it was made in stays the same.
So the decision is just as valid, then, since the environment stays the same. After all, you have the exact same advantages (and disadvantages) over other players as ever. By the way, you didn't answer the question: what did they lose? How is the decision any less valid? What has changed in the environment, ?

Quote:
What is untrue is to believe for the yield to be the same.
So how does:
· being able to fly barges at max bonus
· being able to instantly train into exhumers
· being able to fly indy-CS

…(what their decisions yielded before) differ from:
· being able to fly barges at max bonus
· being able to instantly train into exhumers
· being able to fly indy-CS

(what their decisions will yield after the change)?

Quote:
If it was about the yield then the players who did not train all learning skills to level 5 should not have received the higher attributes we all got.
…which is why the learning skills were reimbursed: because what people had spent time on was gone. The decisions did not yield the same result as before. They no longer had the trained-for advantage over the players who hadn't trained. So they were allowed to replace it with a different, still-existing, trained-for advantage. This is completely unlike the skill changes this summer, where the decisions yield the same result as ever, and where the trained-for advantages remain exactly the same, meaning there is no need to replace that advantage.

So why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything?
And why did you make up the lie about CCP handing out Mining Barge V?
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#462 - 2013-03-11 14:29:52 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
I'd like a reimbursement for all my science and industry skills but that's because I came to the conclusion that it's just boring, sadly this was only after 4.5mil in both.

As for ship skills, the more skills you have the better, so, erm... hush now child.

The science skills are not the topic. If you find there is something wrong about them then start a thread and discuss it there instead of coming here and acting stupid. Your inability to handle your problems properly is not a fitting argument for this discussion.


Firstly, science and industry tie in together and I'm fairly sure there are some science skills required for the orca, although I could be wrong.

I certainly don't need a thread to complain about my own choices I now regret because it's nothing but my fault and not something CCP need to change about the game.

Point I'm trying to make is it's not an issue.

My decision to skill for science and industry was just that, my choice.
If CCP change the game later down the line then big deal, I'll just skill for something else.

Unless things are being completely removed from the game, asking for sp back is little more than a whine.
Whitehound
#463 - 2013-03-11 14:30:19 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
For people who don't mine, and are getting pissy about this -- why'd you choose to learn how to fly a mining support vessel?

The Orca is, and always has been, more than just some mining support vessel. CCP knows this more than anybody else. Even if you were to make this about mining support does this not explain why it needs Mining Barges V and there is also little point in arguing about it now since this requirement is about to get removed and for good reasons.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Whitehound
#464 - 2013-03-11 14:32:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…except, of course, that bad decisions are not a valid reason for reimbursement. You made the error; you live with it. In fact, suffering from your bad decisions is fully intentional. So no, what you get is quite relevant — ...

No. You only got part of what I wrote, but the rest evaded your comprehension. Please try again.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#465 - 2013-03-11 15:01:54 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
For people who don't mine, and are getting pissy about this -- why'd you choose to learn how to fly a mining support vessel?

The Orca is, and always has been, more than just some mining support vessel. CCP knows this more than anybody else. Even if you were to make this about mining support does this not explain why it needs Mining Barges V and there is also little point in arguing about it now since this requirement is about to get removed and for good reasons.



Orca Description wrote:

The Orca was developed as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining Inc as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry and provide a flexible platform from which mining operations can be more easily managed.


Obviously, the description must be wrong, since you're holding the Orca was always more than "just a mining support vessel. Maybe the Role/Skill bonuses will prove you're right...

Orca Bonuses wrote:

Role Bonus:
250% bonus to tractor beam range
100% bonus to tractor beam velocity
500% bonus to survey scanner range
99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules
Can use 3 gang link modules simultaneously.

Industrial Command Ship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to cargo capacity per level
3% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level


nope ... these just reinforce the description that it's a ship whose main function is to support MINING.


As for Mining Barge 5 ... Carriers and Dreads need(ed) Battleship 5, Freighters need(ed) Industrial 5 ... seems pretty much on par that the Mining Support Vessel needs Barge 5.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Whitehound
#466 - 2013-03-11 15:17:01 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Orca Description wrote:

The Orca was developed as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining Inc as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry and provide a flexible platform from which mining operations can be more easily managed.


Obviously, the description must be wrong, ...

No. The description is quite right. You only ignore the part before the and. It always was more than just a mining ship.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#467 - 2013-03-11 15:28:08 UTC
Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ...
... but why?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#468 - 2013-03-11 15:34:01 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ...
... but why?
Bored. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#469 - 2013-03-11 15:35:22 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ...
... but why?
Bored. Lol



Cry Forget someone....

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#470 - 2013-03-11 15:36:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
By the way, here's an interesting question for you: why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything?

question wasn't for me but i will try: have you heard about opportunity cost?

Someone could put these SP used for Mining Barge V (or whatever skills needed to fly Orca) into something more useful. But they were not given by this opportunity. So it can be said they actually lost opportunity to train something more useful.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Mag's
Azn Empire
#471 - 2013-03-11 15:37:30 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ...
... but why?
Bored. Lol



Cry Forget someone....
Better? P

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Haulie Berry
#472 - 2013-03-11 15:39:27 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Tippia wrote:
By the way, here's an interesting question for you: why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything?

question wasn't for me but i will try: have you heard about opportunity cost?

Someone could put these SP used for Mining Barge V (or whatever skills needed to fly Orca) into something more useful. But they were not given by this opportunity. So it can be said they actually lost opportunity to train something more useful.



They didn't lose the opportunity to train something more valuable when they chose to train the skill. They CHOSE to train it then.

Opportunity cost is something that exists at the point in time when you are making the decision. You don't have retroactive opportunity cost - what you have now is a sunk cost.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#473 - 2013-03-11 15:41:19 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Alice Saki wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Thank you, Mag's, for all the likes ...
... but why?
Bored. Lol



Cry Forget someone....
Better? P



*high Five*

LolLol

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#474 - 2013-03-11 15:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
A "Thorax"! Of COURSE! *slaps head*
At best equipped with "720mm Artillery" for a huge load of "damage" and "thrust"!

Its PERFECT!

.) Perfect "form"
.) Perfect "size"
.) Great "manouverability"
.) Even has a bonus on "durability"
.) "Drones" for that little "extra"

Woah!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#475 - 2013-03-11 15:50:44 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
A "Thorax"! Of COURSE! *slaps head*
At best equipped with "720mm Artillery" for a huge load of "damage" and "thrust"!

Its PERFECT!

.) Perfect "form"
.) Perfect "size"
.) Great "manouverability"
.) Even has a bonus on "durability"
.) "Drones" for that little "extra"

Woah!
You're right, it's definitely the "tool" to "do it" with.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#476 - 2013-03-11 15:55:19 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Orca Description wrote:

The Orca was developed as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining Inc as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry and provide a flexible platform from which mining operations can be more easily managed.


Obviously, the description must be wrong, ...

No. The description is quite right. You only ignore the part before the and. It always was more than just a mining ship.


Build as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining, Inc. as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry [and...]

Fine. If you want to nitpick that it's an Industrial support ship, I won't argue with you. But the uses that other people have gotten out of it (mini hisec carrier, mobile base, etc) doesn't negate that its original intention ("as built") was for mining/industry. Same as how WWI and WWII merchant vessels mounted guns -- that didn't immediately make them anything "more" than merchant vessels*.

*well, slightly more defensible merchant vessels ... but you wouldn't call them a frigate or PT boat now, would you?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#477 - 2013-03-11 15:58:42 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Tippia wrote:
By the way, here's an interesting question for you: why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything?

question wasn't for me but i will try: have you heard about opportunity cost?

Someone could put these SP used for Mining Barge V (or whatever skills needed to fly Orca) into something more useful. But they were not given by this opportunity. So it can be said they actually lost opportunity to train something more useful.



They didn't lose the opportunity to train something more valuable when they chose to train the skill. They CHOSE to train it then.

Opportunity cost is something that exists at the point in time when you are making the decision. You don't have retroactive opportunity cost - what you have now is a sunk cost.

I WANTED TO TRAIN THE ORCA
CCP SOUNDWAVE HELD ME AT GUNPOINT AND FORCED ME TO TRAIN MINING BARGE 5
THEN HE TIED ME UP IN CCP HEADQUARTERS BASEMENT AND FORCED ME TO WATCH BRIDEZILLA RERUNS WHILE IT COMPLETED

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#478 - 2013-03-11 16:00:29 UTC
Mag's wrote:
[uote]You're right, it's definitely the "tool" to "do it" with.

Cant believe i didnt think of this earlier. ^_^
Whitehound
#479 - 2013-03-11 16:02:19 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I WANTED TO TRAIN THE ORCA
CCP SOUNDWAVE HELD ME AT GUNPOINT AND FORCED ME TO TRAIN MINING BARGE 5
THEN HE TIED ME UP IN CCP HEADQUARTERS BASEMENT AND FORCED ME TO WATCH BRIDEZILLA RERUNS WHILE IT COMPLETED

I wish the forum would allow for something bigger than just capital letters. I miss mega fonts.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#480 - 2013-03-11 16:02:51 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
A "Thorax"! Of COURSE! *slaps head*
At best equipped with "720mm Artillery" for a huge load of "damage" and "thrust"!

Its PERFECT!

.) Perfect "form"
.) Perfect "size"
.) Great "manouverability"
.) Even has a bonus on "durability"
.) "Drones" for that little "extra"

Woah!
You need "help" to "sink" those "costs" , because I "know" a "gal" ?

Also, thanks for all the space-likes. It almost makes my avatar feel better about herself.