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ORE ship reimbursement and upcoming expansion

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Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-03-08 03:20:56 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Quote:
I'm happy that they are removed though, the changes in training make skilling up for a ship much more sense.


I agree that the new tech tree makes much more sense, and I like it too. I just don't like that some people had to waste a ton of time sinking skill points into something and it was all useless and a waste, and no kind of reimbursement for it.



Except that didn't happen. The skills were neither useless, nor a waste. The orca, is intended as a mining support vessel, and as such,characters training up for it were required to train up other mining and support skills, that they would find useful when doing other tasks directly related to use of the orca. The ONLY failing here, is that people think the Orca, should have been treated as a freighter, and not a mini rorqual. Even though it was introduced to fulfill the role of a mini rorqual.

Additionally, reimbursement does NOT happen in cases like these, where a skill as no longer required as a pre-req. reimbursement ONLY happens when a skill is removed. But apparently that is a difficult concept, and whiny give-me-give-me-give-me crybabies deserve to have their hand held, and everything given to them that they want, even if it is a measly 30 days of SP.

HTFU.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#22 - 2013-03-08 03:22:40 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Your analogies don't work for several reasons, but I will just cover one. I didn't get any benefit of anything. Like I said, I didn't finish the training, I just dumped God knows how many weeks into training for it before I stopped after reading that blog post.


That's your choice. Now, instead of flying the Orca in however many days you had left, you get to fly it in 17d + 3 months.

Quote:
The better analogy would be that I was on a payment plan to get the car. I was dumping paycheck money into it when I could have been dumping my money into something else. Now the dealership comes along and says it is altering my payment plan. Most of the money I have paid so far doesn't count for anything. But the good news is, I can start a new payment plan and get into the car anyway, for less money than what the other plan cost (except, well, I already paid a lot of money under the old plan).[quote]

In your analogy, the dealership is also giving you more than enough notice for you to complete your current payment plan.

So, you're upset that you're paying the same or less for the car than you originally agreed to pay?

The training time you have spent already is irrelevant.
If less than [New Training Time] remains on your current training queue, finish the old queue.
If more than [New Training Time] remains on your current training queue, decide if the 3 month wait is worth it, and celebrate that you're paying less than you expected.

[quote]There's nothing "still extant and useful" about it. I'm not using the skills for anything. I didn't want them for anything but Orca. It was just a waste. The reason I guess you don't care is, it probably doesn't affect you.


Their utility to you is irrelevant. When Motherships turned into Supercarriers and lost the ability to fit a Clone bay, nobody got SP reimbursed, because the skill is still extant and useful (just probably not for the Super pilots). When Supers lost the ability to field drones, same thing. When Bombers switched from Cruise Missiles to Torpedos, nobody got SP reimbursed, because the Cruise Missile skills were still extant and useful.

Useful = Has a Use.

Learning skills got reimbursed because they were removed from the game. Some esoteric skills were eligible for having their SP reimbursed because they had no in-game effect. The Orca pre-reqs fit neither example.

I have an Orca pilot that is used exclusively for hauling. If the change had happened before I trained that pilot, I would have benefited. You're right, it doesn't effect me, because I understand the principle of sunk costs.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
M'pact
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-03-08 03:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: M'pact
Forgot to respond to the OP in my first post lol:

The skills you trained will still be in the game.

They can still be used for whatever their original purpose was.

You cannot prove that you only trained them to get into an Orca.

Therefore, your skill points will not be reimbursed.

Maybe if there was some way in-game to choose that you were specifically training for Ship A, and they changed the requirements for Ship A while you were training for it, THEN you might be able to get reimbursed. Obviously there is no such mechanism.

So yeah, I hate to say it but ... tough noogies.

When I finally do make an impact on this universe, it will reverberate across the entirety of it, and no one will be able to truthfully claim they don't know me. - -

Until then, I'll just sit quietly over here, minding my own business...
Asmodai Xodai
#24 - 2013-03-08 04:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Quote:
But apparently that is a difficult concept, and whiny give-me-give-me-give-me crybabies deserve to have their hand held, and everything given to them that they want, even if it is a measly 30 days of SP


EDIT: No personal attacks, please - ISD Tyrozan

I'm the one arguing for new skillplans to take as long as old ones. I don't want anything given to me on a silver platter. That includes stuff I haven't trained for yet, not just stuff I've sunk a bunch of useless SP into. I want to be sitting in a titan one day. But I don't want it given to me in a day. If it takes a year as things stand right now, I don't want it altered to downwards.

EDIT: No personal attacks, please - ISD Tyrozan
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#25 - 2013-03-08 04:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Quote:
But apparently that is a difficult concept, and whiny give-me-give-me-give-me crybabies deserve to have their hand held, and everything given to them that they want, even if it is a measly 30 days of SP


EDIT: Removed personal attack quote - ISD Tyrozan

Listen moron, I'm no whiny give-me-give-me crybaby. I'm the one arguing for new skillplans to take as long as old ones. I don't want anything given to me on a silver platter. That includes stuff I haven't trained for yet, not just stuff I've sunk a bunch of useless SP into. I want to be sitting in a titan one day. But I don't want it given to me in a day. If it takes a year as things stand right now, I don't want it altered to downwards.

EDIT: Removed personal attack quote - ISD Tyrozan.


Now, that's what I call a strong reaction.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#26 - 2013-03-08 04:09:10 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:

Also, hi Ruby. How have you been?



" Oh....just trolling around as always....." Roll

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Asmodai Xodai
#27 - 2013-03-08 04:11:58 UTC
Quote:
So, you're upset that you're paying the same or less for the car than you originally agreed to pay?


I will be paying more. If I continue to completion now (if that's even possible - I may not have enough time), I will have paid much much more than what everyone else will be charged. If I stop now, and start again with the new plan, I will be paying much much more than what everyone else is charged. I don't know why this is a hard concept for you to grasp. Most people have an intuitive sense of justice, and what is fair and what isn't. The overwhelming number of people I've ever known would easily say "yes, this doesn't seem fair or right." The people here aren't saying that, they are saying the opposite.

The people here seem to be masochists who enjoy experiencing pain. Fine, I didn't come here looking for a fight, and I didn't come here to argue. If people think it's just peachy keen that they can spend weeks throwing SP out the window, fine. It's your game.

I'm not responding to anything else you said in your post, because quite frankly I understand little of your view on this or what motivates it or where you are coming from.
Asmodai Xodai
#28 - 2013-03-08 04:15:09 UTC
Quote:
Maybe if there was some way in-game to choose that you were specifically training for Ship A, and they changed the requirements for Ship A while you were training for it, THEN you might be able to get reimbursed. Obviously there is no such mechanism.


I can think of a mechanism. CCP could simply say that we could convert (or trade) skillpoints used for training these ships into skillpoints for something else. That would be totally fair, and I would accept that.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#29 - 2013-03-08 04:16:38 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:


The people here seem to be masochists who enjoy experiencing pain. Fine, I didn't come here looking for a fight, and I didn't come here to argue. If people think it's just peachy keen that they can spend weeks throwing SP out the window, fine. It's your game.

I



Honestly ? These opinions make no sense at all. AT ALL.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-03-08 04:27:45 UTC
Someone shoot me, I'm on the same side of an argument as Krixtal Icefluxor.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#31 - 2013-03-08 06:44:29 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
I will be paying more. If I continue to completion now (if that's even possible - I may not have enough time), I will have paid much much more than what everyone else will be charged. If I stop now, and start again with the new plan, I will be paying much much more than what everyone else is charged. I don't know why this is a hard concept for you to grasp. Most people have an intuitive sense of justice, and what is fair and what isn't. The overwhelming number of people I've ever known would easily say "yes, this doesn't seem fair or right." The people here aren't saying that, they are saying the opposite.

The people here seem to be masochists who enjoy experiencing pain. Fine, I didn't come here looking for a fight, and I didn't come here to argue. If people think it's just peachy keen that they can spend weeks throwing SP out the window, fine. It's your game.

I'm not responding to anything else you said in your post, because quite frankly I understand little of your view on this or what motivates it or where you are coming from.


If you continue now, you will be paying the exact amount that you thought you would for the ability you wanted.
If (assuming there's more than 17d-overlap left in your training) you stop now and resume after the Summer expansion, you will be paying less than you were willing to and thought you would for the ability you wanted.
If there's less than 17d-overlap left in your training, then you have 2-3 months to complete that 2 weeks of training and end up paying the exact amount that you thought you would for the ability you wanted.

You are either going to be paying the exact amount you were willing to pay, or less than you were willing to pay.

What other people will be paying is entirely irrelevant. Again, does the supermarket send you a check when Milk goes on sale the day after you buy a gallon?


If you confuse "understanding the concept of sunk costs" with "being a masochist," then I guess you've got me pegged. Roll

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#32 - 2013-03-08 06:51:59 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Someone shoot me, I'm on the same side of an argument as Krixtal Icefluxor.

He's gotten much better as of late. I think the GEWNS cured him or something...

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#33 - 2013-03-08 06:56:02 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Someone shoot me, I'm on the same side of an argument as Krixtal Icefluxor.

He's gotten much better as of late. I think the GEWNS cured him or something...


It's an imposter, will the real Krixtal Icefluxor please stand up.

@ the OP, no, it's been discussed to death, you're not getting an SP refund.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-08 07:01:38 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Quote:
Maybe if there was some way in-game to choose that you were specifically training for Ship A, and they changed the requirements for Ship A while you were training for it, THEN you might be able to get reimbursed. Obviously there is no such mechanism.


I can think of a mechanism. CCP could simply say that we could convert (or trade) skillpoints used for training these ships into skillpoints for something else. That would be totally fair, and I would accept that.


So.. "I invested early and it cost more for me to gain advantages back then. Now it won't cost as much time & effort so I want back what it cost me to gain advantages back then!!!"

Yes, I agree it's a whine post and no, I don't think a reimbursement is in order.

I bet you get really hacked off when Steam runs its sales and a game you bought a year or so ago is now cheaper. Damn that must upset the hell out of you.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#35 - 2013-03-08 07:21:24 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Someone shoot me, I'm on the same side of an argument as Krixtal Icefluxor.


Sad but true! Lol

.
Verlaine Glariant
The Kudur Cult
#36 - 2013-03-08 07:27:26 UTC
Unsurprisingly enough I am seeing a noticeable amount of monocles in this thread.

www.amphysvena.org
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#37 - 2013-03-08 07:31:43 UTC
Verlaine Glariant wrote:
Unsurprisingly enough I am seeing a noticeable amount of monocles in this thread.


"Odin gave his eye to acquire knowledge, but I would give far more."

This thread is now about History channel's shocking return to presenting TV shows that are actually related to, well, History.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-03-08 07:41:14 UTC
I didn't get reimbursed when they changed the Punisher from an autocannon ship to a laser ship Sad
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-03-08 08:14:18 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


Also, this isn't the first thread where the above has been explained ad nauseaum.


This also isn't the first time skills have been changed in such a way & no one has ever received a skill reimbursment. The only time skill points should ever be refunded is in the case of a complete skill removal. Get over it OP.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-03-08 08:16:09 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Quote:
But apparently that is a difficult concept, and whiny give-me-give-me-give-me crybabies deserve to have their hand held, and everything given to them that they want, even if it is a measly 30 days of SP


Finally, my first forum idiot.

Listen moron, I'm no whiny give-me-give-me crybaby. I'm the one arguing for new skillplans to take as long as old ones. I don't want anything given to me on a silver platter. That includes stuff I haven't trained for yet, not just stuff I've sunk a bunch of useless SP into. I want to be sitting in a titan one day. But I don't want it given to me in a day. If it takes a year as things stand right now, I don't want it altered to downwards.

You're just another tool with knee jerk reactions to defend the status quo. Fine by me, but don't call me the whiny crybaby. Go look in the mirror.


Now, that's what I call a strong reaction.


3/8/2013:
The day Asmodai's feelings were irrevocably hurt by a generalized statement. If you aren't one of the ones asking for a reimbursement of skills, then I would LIKE to think that you have enough active braincells in your head, to realize my comment wasn't directed at you. Guess I don't always get what I like...