These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

ORE ship reimbursement and upcoming expansion

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Asmodai Xodai
#201 - 2013-03-09 21:12:16 UTC
Quote:
except if they were mining, during the time they were training for the orca, they were in a mining ship, contributing to the mining fleet.


Someone might have... you know... not been mining. Someone's entire goal might have been to support other miners. Or perhaps someone's entire goal might have been to haul unrefined ore, as perhaps they didn't have the skills to refine. Who knows?
Dave Stark
#202 - 2013-03-09 21:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Quote:
except if they were mining, during the time they were training for the orca, they were in a mining ship, contributing to the mining fleet.


Someone might have... you know... not been mining. Someone's entire goal might have been to support other miners. Or perhaps someone's entire goal might have been to haul unrefined ore, as perhaps they didn't have the skills to refine. Who knows?


supporting them by not using the skills they're training for the good of the fleet?
even if you aren't boosting, an extra miner is better than being logged out.
in that case, **** 'em, they're clearly useless anyway.

either way, mining barge is never a useless skill to train as an orca pilot that boosts, as i pointed out (and you casually ignored and edited out of the quote)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2013-03-09 21:17:56 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
as i pointed out (and you casually ignored and edited out of the quote)

Who would have funk !

Do you mean to say the OP isn't actually interested in getting enlightened,
but instead just wants to rant and have things go the way he wants them to ?

REALLY ??? O_O
Dave Stark
#204 - 2013-03-09 21:19:17 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
as i pointed out (and you casually ignored and edited out of the quote)

Who would have funk !

Do you mean to say the OP isn't actually interested in getting enlightened,
but instead just wants to rant and have things go the way he wants them to ?

REALLY ??? O_O


now you mention it, and i've checked what forum we're in...

i should have known better, shouldn't i?
Whitehound
#205 - 2013-03-09 21:22:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Estella Osoka wrote:
Nope, but it doesn't change the fact that the skills needed to get into an Orca now, are not useful. I like the idea that if I want to fly a mining barge, then I can.

Of course, to some are all of these skills useful, but not everyone thinks this way including CCP. CCP understands the situation and sympathizes with the players who are asking for a reimbursement in the event of a skill tree change. It is just open if they will be ignorant of what these players are asking or if they will allow them to reallocate their skill points. Until the changes are here will we not know. I do hope CCP will at least give a good explanation should they decide against it seeing how their change leaves little doubt in what they think of the current skill requirement.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Asmodai Xodai
#206 - 2013-03-09 21:26:27 UTC
Quote:
supporting them by not using the skills they're training for the good of the fleet?
even if you aren't boosting, an extra miner is better than being logged out.
in that case, **** 'em, they're clearly useless anyway.

either way, mining barge is never a useless skill to train as an orca pilot that boosts, as i pointed out ...


So CCP is making a mistake by removing these skills from the skill path? Why don't you tell them that? In fact, I'm with you 100%.

Glad we finally agree on something.
Dave Stark
#207 - 2013-03-09 21:30:11 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Quote:
supporting them by not using the skills they're training for the good of the fleet?
even if you aren't boosting, an extra miner is better than being logged out.
in that case, **** 'em, they're clearly useless anyway.

either way, mining barge is never a useless skill to train as an orca pilot that boosts, as i pointed out ...


So CCP is making a mistake by removing these skills from the skill path? Why don't you tell them that? In fact, I'm with you 100%.

Glad we finally agree on something.


do i think they are making a mistake removing them? not at all.
do i think people should be reimbursed? not at all.

if people previously felt that training mining barge V was a perfectly acceptable price to pay for being able to fly an orca, then they have no reason to complain about it now regardless of how useless mining barge V has been, or will be to them. the simple fact is they were willing to "pay the price" in order to fly the orca, so they paid it and nothing about the skill changes stops them flying the orca.

even more so if their only argument is because they don't use the orca for anything mining related; in which case, square peg, round hole, and this is the result. wasted sp.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#208 - 2013-03-09 21:57:02 UTC
I knew that this issue would cause a lot of other players grief. To the OP, it is really not worth wasting your time discussing it on these forums though as you will simply be trolled by idiotic and inane comments which make little logical sense.

Unfortunately whilst CCP do sympathise with your situation, and I do myself, they aren't going to reimburse the skill points.

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
For playing the game ourselves, we do know how much of pain it is to have unwanted skills left in your character sheet because of a change you even remotely have nothing to do about. It seems logical that, since we required Mining Barges 5 trained as a pure time sink to reach the Orca, we should give the skill points back.

Except it's not, unfortunately. As mentioned in the blog, the only skills that we can in good conscience reimburse are the Destroyers and Battlecruisers ones.

That is because the overhaul will make the two skills mentioned above useless. Even if we were going to give the Destroyers/Battlecruisers skill points back in the allocation pool on a 1:1 ratio, we would leave players unable to fly hulls they could use before the changes (we are creating four racial variants instead of a single generic skill).

All the other skills, including Mining Barge 5 for the Orca, are not in the same category however. We are not taking your ability to fly the vessels away but changing how they are reached - players will still be able to fly them after the change. We are even modifying how skill training works to make sure you can still train the skill itself after the plan goes live.

Yes, it is annoying we leave you with a bunch of skills you have no interest into in your character sheet, and for that, you have our sincere apologies. But if we were to refund them here, other players, like capital pilots, or even people we affected during our numerous changes in the past, could rightfully claim for the same treatment. Because even if the previous concept was deemed acceptable, EVE Online is not one of these games where skill allocation can be technically wasted: with time, any player can theoretically reach and train all the skills we have to offer. There is no such thing as a Class A preventing you from seeing Class B content unless you create a new character specifically for it.

Invested skill points are still an asset - particularly Mining Barges 5, as it is very valuable for resource gathering characters. Which brings the question, why should we leave players with Mining Barge 5 trained if they are using the Orca as a hauler, or even a logistics platform for pirate related activities? That is because, initially, it was designed to be a logistic ship with a mining focus. You may not use any of its bonuses due to the sandbox nature of the game, but it didn't change the role it was initially tailored for.


So again, you do have our sympathy here - we wouldn't have spent half an hour writing this reply if we didn't care - but we cannot reimburse anything else than Destroyers and Battlecruisers in this case.


Thank you for the clarification and detailed response on this matter CCP Ytterbium, it is much appreciated by myself and I am sure many others.

In isolation this mining barge does not pose a large enough issue to warrant a major complaint from myself, and I have stated in this thread and others that this is a minor complaint and simply an anomaly in the otherwise excellent way CCP deals with other issues which I have experienced. Although the inevitable consequence of an event like this is that it begins to undermine of the skill system and the decisions we players make when attempting to optimise our training plans. The skill system is integral to the gameplay of eve, much more than in any other online game, and many players spend a lot of time planning and researching optimal skill training plans for their characters.

The only concern I have is will my future training plans be effected in a similar way to this as many more changes seem to be on the horzion. If so then that will really begin to effect my enjoyment of the game as for some months I am simply keeping my accounts running to achieve my skill training goals with little time actually spent in the game.


CCP Ytterbium wrote:

This is a valid concern. While there is no way we can promise we will never ever do skill changes again, overhaul like theses are supposed to last for quite a while - which is why we modified a lot of vessels to make sure we wouldn't have to do it again soon. Even if we do change some skills in the near future, it should not impact gameplay nearly as much.

To answer the question however, you need to ask yourselves "when was the last time CCP changed ship skills on such a wide scale?" That was... uh.. well... never since launch?* Oops

*That I can remember. Please don't hold my family responsible over 7 generations if you find a smart quote listing 200 ship skill changes in 2004, thank youCry
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2013-03-09 22:46:57 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
There is simply no further need for discussion. I'm not saying my idea is perfect. I'm saying that it cannot be improved upon.

Well to be completely frank there was no need for further discussion after the second post in the thread.

Which also incidentally happens to be my post.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#210 - 2013-03-09 22:50:28 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
There is simply no further need for discussion. I'm not saying my idea is perfect. I'm saying that it cannot be improved upon.

Well to be completely frank there was no need for further discussion after the second post in the thread.

Which also incidentally happens to be my post.


if we're being frank, the ISDs should've done their job and move and/or lock this thread.
the last thread made about this very issue was moved, and since this is a duplicate thread due to the fact that we've already had this thread (and it's been moved) it should have been locked as soon as it was made.

but c'est la vie.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2013-03-09 23:03:13 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
There is simply no further need for discussion. I'm not saying my idea is perfect. I'm saying that it cannot be improved upon.

Well to be completely frank there was no need for further discussion after the second post in the thread.

Which also incidentally happens to be my post.


if we're being frank, the ISDs should've done their job and move and/or lock this thread.
the last thread made about this very issue was moved, and since this is a duplicate thread due to the fact that we've already had this thread (and it's been moved) it should have been locked as soon as it was made.

but c'est la vie.
Quoting the wrong post,
you can make money until you can afford a Skiff (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
and in the meantime i'll skill for it. ^_^
Dave Stark
#212 - 2013-03-09 23:05:36 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
There is simply no further need for discussion. I'm not saying my idea is perfect. I'm saying that it cannot be improved upon.

Well to be completely frank there was no need for further discussion after the second post in the thread.

Which also incidentally happens to be my post.


if we're being frank, the ISDs should've done their job and move and/or lock this thread.
the last thread made about this very issue was moved, and since this is a duplicate thread due to the fact that we've already had this thread (and it's been moved) it should have been locked as soon as it was made.

but c'est la vie.
Quoting the wrong post,
you can make money until you can afford a Skiff (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
and in the meantime i'll skill for it. ^_^


train for a procurer, and if you come mining with me, you can keep the procurer i give you :P
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2013-03-09 23:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Dave Stark wrote:
train for a procurer, and if you come mining with me, you can keep the procurer i give you :P

Would be worth more to join me on a ganking roam. :p
And it's fun, too ! :D

(no need for ganking on your side, just scanning/looting. i promise we won't just sit around at gates like the noobs do ^_^)


Also ... wtf should i do with a procurer ?

It doesn't have any cool ability, like the skiff ... and it's a mining ship !

I don't even know if that thing has slots for turrets !
(no idea about mining lasers, really)


edit: **** all of the above. Gimme a skiff or i'll undock in a reaper all day and troll you with notifications!
Dave Stark
#214 - 2013-03-09 23:09:46 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
train for a procurer, and if you come mining with me, you can keep the procurer i give you :P

Would be worth more to join me on a ganking roam. :p
And it's fun, too ! :D

(no need for ganking on your side, just scanning/looting. i promise we won't just sit around at gates like the noobs do ^_^)


Also ... wtf should i do with a procurer ?

It doesn't have any cool ability, like the skiff ... and it's a mining ship !

I don't even know if that thing has slots for turrets !
(no idea about mining lasers, really)


edit: **** all of the above. Gimme a skiff ! xD


put a cyno on it?
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2013-03-09 23:10:16 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
train for a procurer, and if you come mining with me, you can keep the procurer i give you :P

Would be worth more to join me on a ganking roam. :p
And it's fun, too ! :D

(no need for ganking on your side, just scanning/looting. i promise we won't just sit around at gates like the noobs do ^_^)


Also ... wtf should i do with a procurer ?

It doesn't have any cool ability, like the skiff ... and it's a mining ship !

I don't even know if that thing has slots for turrets !
(no idea about mining lasers, really)


edit: **** all of the above. Gimme a skiff ! xD


put a cyno on it?

i added something in the last post.

What would i do with a cyno ?
Dave Stark
#216 - 2013-03-09 23:11:34 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
What would i do with a cyno ?


light it and then tell PL, or something?
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2013-03-09 23:12:39 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
What would i do with a cyno ?


light it and then tell PL, or something?

I think ONCE i've been hotdropped, but i can't recall.
That could be, though, because it all happened so fast,
although i don't even know if it happens fast.

edit: also, i think for cynos one needs another guy on the other end.
Dave Stark
#218 - 2013-03-09 23:14:02 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
What would i do with a cyno ?


light it and then tell PL, or something?

I think ONCE i've been hotdropped, but i can't recall.
That could be, though, because it all happened so fast,
although i don't even know if it happens fast.

edit: also, i think for cynos one needs another guy on the other end.


oh righty, yeah, forgot you had no friends to jump to your cyno :P
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2013-03-09 23:15:34 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
oh righty, yeah, forgot you had no pretend-friends, because you're not a :forever alone:, to jump to your cyno :P


Fixed that for you. :)
Dave Stark
#220 - 2013-03-09 23:16:57 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
oh righty, yeah, forgot you had no pretend-friends, because you're not a :forever alone:, to jump to your cyno :P


Fixed that for you. :)


oh sol, you do brighten up an evening.

usually because you keep losing ships and my eve mail icon is blinking with more bounty notifications.