Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The fact that CCP added in the ''duel'' option, ment that they had given in to the demands of (my apologies) 'carebears'.

PvP (Player versus Player) does not and has not ever ment '' 1 Player vs 1 Player". And since EvE is a sandbox game, a duel option would only destroy the actual pvp (in highsec anyway).

PvP equals ; not safe, (possibly) expensive, rewarding, and wanting to make sure that you can conqour your enemy. (and various other things but for the sake of the lenght of this post..)

Even a remotely connected way to perform duelling like you said, would not solve anything, it would only make it look more like "World of Warcraft", and we all know how EvE players feel towards WoW players..

To even think that PvP is ''safe'' at any time , even in HS, is ludicrous. To even suggest to make PvP fair, even in HS, is also, ludicrous.

PvP nor EvE is and was never ment to be ''fair''. Anyone in EvE is fair game.

Don't think for a second that duelling will ever be fair, for that PvP is not fair, it is unfair.

But , to be constructive, a simple solution: if someone remote reps/enables EW modules on a ship that is duelling, simply make it fair game for the enemy of the friendly being repped? This would solve your problem, with remote repping pilots repping duelists. And I guess it would make it more of an even playground, since ppl will still be able to support their friends in duels, at the risk of putting their own ships at risk though.

edit 7th of march 22:53:
Apart from that, players will not leave because of the duelling.. that's just.. (my apologies), stupid to think so. They'd simply move on and try again later. If they don't, who cares, they probably wouldn't like EvE anyway then.

Just my 2 cents.

Greetings,
- Sealwarrior

When your idea has been disproven and your thread is dying, trying to play the "it's to help new players" card means your thread is dead.

So you think that trying to help new players is a bad thing and not to be encouraged?

And where has my idea been disproven?

All I see is a some people saying it is a dumb idea and giving their opinion.
That in no way disproves the idea.

A lot of comments say that it would not teach PVP properly.
Well, then make is so that it does.
Have fights in random different arenas.
Like some of the wormholes that buff and nerf certain features.
Have an arena in a situation that nerfs the value of active tanking.

If you were not sure what arena you would fight in, that would cause you to learn to be more diversified in you fittings.
Would that not help a person to be better at PVP?
I see there are a lot of ways that it could be done that would have positive results for everyone.

Hardly. But they must be helped in the "right" ways (ex. taking them in, training them, giving them a better New Player Experience)... not by adding in bastardized forms of what we already have with restrictions and controls which people will come to prefer due to ease and "lack of stress" (which is a purely relative concept when you think about it).


I can fire this right back at you. You have shown no reason why this should be implemented outside of your own want of it (due to the mere possibility of someone "cheating") and claim that this would help newbies.


- In "real PvP" you don't "diversify" your fittings to be better in more situations... you "specialize" your fittings towards a tactic and force an opponent to engage you on your terms.
- If people are randomly dropped into different arenas with different rules that buff or nerf their setups, you force people into situations where they are either grossly favored or grossly unfavored in... all because of the games mechanics rather than a player's particular choices, setups, or tactics.
- An arena still doesn't teach people how to...
-- use and understand the Directional Scanner.
-- manipulate aggro mechanics on gates or stations.
-- how to get away from hostiles when things go bad.
-- how to chase down targets that are running from you.
-- how to take on something that vastly outmatches you.
-- how to get people to engage you.
-- pull apart and/or harass a larger group of people while staying alive.
-- deal with chaos and uncontrollable situations.

I fully concur. All of my ships across my 2 accounts are disposable, I don't get too attached and I don't whine when one gets vapourised. Losing ships is the cost of doing business. The only thing I try to do but don't always succeed is to make them pay for themselves before they go pop.

Came for tears, now im hungry.

Thanks

Prior to Crimewatch 2.0, you could steal from a can and you'd only be flagged as a legal target to the owner. Everyone knows this, nobody's debating it. Same for the fact that under Crimewatch 2.0, stealing from a can still flags you as a legal target to the owner but now has the bonus effect of flagging you as a legal target to everyone else. These are matters of fact that nobody is debating.

Under the old system, people were using the canflip mechanics to arrange 1v1 fights and to arrange multi-person FFA fights. You don't have to believe me, it happened multiple times. I saw it on several occasions and even participated in a few myself. It was a very common practice, whether you believe it happened or not.

When Crimewatch 2.0 came, the canflipping continued to have the same mechanics as before, and people attempted to use it the same way as before only to find out that in some cases (too many cases, it seems), a 1v1 would be initiated only to have everyone else joining in hoping for a free kill. Again, this is a matter of fact and something I saw for myself multiple times.

Dueling provides a method to achieve the same CONCORD-free 1v1 that people were using before. It is CCP implementing a replacement for an activity that can no longer be feasibly accomplished in the same way as before, due to CCP's own actions.

In order to more clearly demonstrate for you, let's look at a low-tech improvised diagram:

---

Old System:
Player A drops a can of ammo --> Player B steals one unit of ammo --> Player A and B proceed to fight.

New System:
Player A drops a can of ammo --> Player B steals one unit of ammo --> Player A and B proceed to fight --> Player B is jumped upon by everyone within firing range who's hoping for a piece of Player B's bounty and/or a killmail.

Duel System:
Player A sends a duel request --> Player B accepts the duel request --> Player A and B proceed to fight.

---

As you can see, there's virtually no difference between the old system and the duel system. It allows the same nice 1v1 fights that were going on before Crimewatch, but also has the benefit of eliminating neutral RR through suspect flagging. Off-grid boosting and fleet RR continue to remain annoyances, but the system has improved.

You're getting too caught up on flavor text, believing that "honorable" and "duel" mean that the end result of spaceships shooting each other is somehow different because of shiny new interfaces and the lack of stealing from a can. None of the highsec PvPers I see every day seem to find anything different, except that they're back out on the undock shooting each other instead of complaining that people are too scared to go suspect flag. As for people going to lowsec, I'm sure they do. They also PvP in highsec. First via canflip and now via duel system.

Fortunately, however, you already know this since you know so much about the highsec PvP scene.

Please tell us more about how people don't do things that I see them doing every day.

Please tell us more about how impromptu highsec PvP tournaments that use canflipping to legalize combat don't exist.

You're so knowledgeable about highsec PvP. Please continue to share your vast knowledge of it with us.

FYI, I only troll and insult when I see blatant stupidity or someone appears unwilling to listen to anything else. When people are being reasonable, I make every attempt to be respectful and civil.

This can be solved by placing tech moons in hisec

Where do i say I am looking for a fair fight?

However, now that i think about it and with some of the comments and can see that a truly fair fight might be fun.
But I am realizing that most of the posters on this thread would not want a fair fight.

It takes a lot more courage than most players have to risk high amounts of isk on personal abilities.
To go into a fight knowing that the most skilled fighter will be the winner would kill the whole idea of fair fights.

This game is to full of players that do not, will not take responsibility for their actions.
So you are right that most of the present players are not really interested in a "fair Fight".
Even though they are always whining about the lack of it when they are the victims.

Yes, a duel safe from outside interference would not be the game play for a lot of players because that is not what they want.
It would create a new faction of players that would expand EVEs appeal.(one more thing to do)

Many comment that it would kill PVP because "why would some one go on a roam looking for a fight when they can just sign up for one. I don't think very many of those posting on this thread would do that. Those that like to PVP in EVE at this time, do it because of the way it is now. They are not interested in fair fights and would not support or participate in them.
So that part of EVE would not change.

I do not see what it would take away from those that like it the way it is.
The option for a fair duel is not for you. You could even keep the present dueling system the way it is and call the new idea for a fair fight "Arena"

Personally, I would like to see just how good I really am. I am pretty good at killing cripples and the under privileged but just how good would I be if my opponent was not ambushed and outgunned.

But I do not seem to be getting any support on this idea, and I guess if CCP thought it would or will be profitable then they will bring it

An unfair advantage is where one has outside help (remote repair). An unfair advantage would be exploiting ones ignorance of the game. An unfair advantage is where a person is out numbered. The skills that i have to put T2 modules and T2 guns in a rifter would give me an unfair advantage over someone with low fitting skills.

Just the 1 1/2 years of experience i have gives me an unfair advantage over a new player fresh out of the tutorials. The training that Chuck Norris has done gives him quite an unfair advantage over me.

Do you need more examples of what an unfair advantage is?