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Why not to have T3 battlecruisers

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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-03-07 13:20:28 UTC
Dazram Two wrote:
If a T3 Cruiser runs you almost a billion ISK, I don't even want to imagine the price tag on a T3 Battleship. Shocked



I never had a single Tengu under 2billion + mark worth of ship+fit because it's a good isk investment for what you get back.

A T3 Battleship would be far too expensive it self, factor fit and you put a target on your back named "gank me" or "kill me first" everyone 15 systems around WILL want to kill.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2013-03-07 13:25:11 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Man I cannot wait for your tears when the t3s get balanced with the other cruisers.

Except that the rebalancing isn't going to be anywhere near what you're hoping for because they're not overpowered like you think they are, and their expense means that they need to be at least somewhat good otherwise nobody will fly them ever.

A Legion fit comparable to a Zealot gets maybe 50 more DPS with conflag, and twice the EHP. It's also slower and less agile.
Oh, and it's well over twice the cost.


Cost isnt going to be taken into account when they get balanced. These 4 cruisers will finaly be cruisers and not compact battleships.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2013-03-07 13:26:43 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Dazram Two wrote:
If a T3 Cruiser runs you almost a billion ISK, I don't even want to imagine the price tag on a T3 Battleship. Shocked



I never had a single Tengu under 2billion + mark worth of ship+fit because it's a good isk investment for what you get back.

A T3 Battleship would be far too expensive it self, factor fit and you put a target on your back named "gank me" or "kill me first" everyone 15 systems around WILL want to kill.


Hull cost is not what gankers look for.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2013-03-07 13:27:19 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
They're not cruisers, and you're delusional if you think cost isn't a balancing factor.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#65 - 2013-03-07 13:31:20 UTC
When the T3s were first being discussed at Fanfest they were described as Battlecruisers - and given their command ship level performance it made sense.
It's only since their release into the wilds of Tranquility that they have become reasonably consistently termed cruisers.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-03-07 13:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
baltec1 wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Current T3 cruisers are fine

Yep, nothing at all wrong with a cruiser that has the firepower and tank of a battleships with the speed and manovering of a destroyer. Or a ship that can both warp cloaked AND be invulnerable to bubbles. Nothing at all wrong with that!



Fake.

Show me your uber EFT numbers without OGB/links, billions worth of implants and fit.

Outside Proteus huge buffer, Legion uber armor resists, Loki agility, Tengu dmg projection it seems you found a new T3 in the game.

Let's call it T3 Baltepicus1, now can you show me your uber fit and please something useful instead of just another battleclinic idiots fit to prove numbers?

Again, get rid of those poor game mechanics like links and half of the problem is solved. The other half unfortunately is your mindset and no one can do anything for you if you don't help yourself to understand those are fine.
Don't like them? -don't train for them, don't buy them and refuse to join Alliance OPs with those, jump in a logi instead and let them die.



Man I cannot wait for your tears when the t3s get balanced with the other cruisers.



You'll get none and let me explain you why.

This is an MMO and like EVERY other MMO when balances are done across the board there's always a different top class/ship/fit, and this is what keeps things interesting.
I'm able to fly them all, so how much do you think I care which one will be the next OMGFCKNPWZOR machine?-I don't.

I can admit something is wrong when it's one, T3's are not one with exception of a certain sub about to change. You come up with arguments but no proof, I can't change my opinion based on your assumptions that imho are biased and do not factor the real problems from poorly implemented and bad mechanics.

Again, I'm asking you, how much OP is a fleet T2 fit Tengu? It isn't.
Pick a Drake, fit 90K EHP 1200m/S permanently running MWD and enough DPS when stack in numbers.

Difference? -several hundred millions for a ship not that OP after all?

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2013-03-07 13:37:48 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
They're not cruisers, and you're delusional if you think cost isn't a balancing factor.


Quote:
Strategic Cruisers are Tech 3 Cruisers, introduced in the Apocrypha expansion.

Their modular nature makes them uniquely configurable and optimizable. Various components of these ships are recovered through Reverse Engineering components found in wormhole space.

Each Strategic Cruiser is composed of a ship hull, and a set of 5 subsystems: offensive, defensive, propulsion, engineering, and electronic. The ship hull itself has 3 upgrade hardpoints, but no fitting slots. The subsystems chosen provide the fitting slots.

Each race has a different hull, and (presumably) different modules that work with that hull. Each race also has a set of 6 skills required for flying a Strategic Cruiser: one for each subsystem, and a Strategic Cruiser skill.



Yea... clearly not a cruiser...

As for cost, if that was true a vindicator would have the firepower of a dreadnought and tank of a carrier compared to a megathron.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-03-07 13:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
And yet having battlecruisers that do 1100 DPS with the same EHP as a HAC isn't a problem.

And no, a strategic cruiser isn't a cruiser, really. Same as how a command ship isn't a battlecruiser, an interdictor isn't really a destroyer, an interceptor isn't really a frigate, etc. Why? Because they're completely different classes that come with a different set of capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2013-03-07 13:42:25 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:




You'll get none and let me explain you why.

This is an MMO and like EVERY other MMO when balances are done across the board there's always a different top class/ship/fit, and this is what keeps things interesting.
I'm able to fly them all, so how much do you think I care which one will be the next OMGFCKNPWZOR machine?-I don't.

I can admit something is wrong when it's one, T3's are not one with exception of a certain sub about to change. You come up with arguments but no proof, I can't change my opinion based on your assumptions that imho are biased and do not factor the real problems from poorly implemented and bad mechanics.

Again, I'm asking you, how much OP is a fleet T2 fit Tengu? It isn't.
Pick a Drake, fit 90K EHP 1200m/S and enough DPS when stack in numbers.

Difference? -several hundred millions for a ship not that OP after all?


The very fact that you have to compare them to battlecruisers shows they are out of whack with the other cruisers.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2013-03-07 13:44:35 UTC
Besides, if you nerf the Tengu, you're going to be nerfing a lot of people's already anemic nullsec income.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-03-07 13:48:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
They're not cruisers, and you're delusional if you think cost isn't a balancing factor.


Quote:
Strategic Cruisers are Tech 3 Cruisers, introduced in the Apocrypha expansion.

Their modular nature makes them uniquely configurable and optimizable. Various components of these ships are recovered through Reverse Engineering components found in wormhole space.

Each Strategic Cruiser is composed of a ship hull, and a set of 5 subsystems: offensive, defensive, propulsion, engineering, and electronic. The ship hull itself has 3 upgrade hardpoints, but no fitting slots. The subsystems chosen provide the fitting slots.

Each race has a different hull, and (presumably) different modules that work with that hull. Each race also has a set of 6 skills required for flying a Strategic Cruiser: one for each subsystem, and a Strategic Cruiser skill.



Yea... clearly not a cruiser...

As for cost, if that was true a vindicator would have the firepower of a dreadnought and tank of a carrier compared to a megathron.



Well get 2500DPS from a vindicator is not really hard and I can't see any T3 doing this like you claim, hell even a Talos does 1600 or a Brutix 1200

Again, your problem is not T3's

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-03-07 13:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Ugh, nevermind.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
McBorsk
Multispace Technologies Inc
#73 - 2013-03-07 13:50:53 UTC
The gap between pirate bs and capital is fairly big, i think there is room for a tech 3 battleship.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-03-07 13:51:40 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Welp, I have a moron arguing for the same thing I am, so I give up.



Not empty quoting.

o/

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2013-03-07 13:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Ugh, nevermind.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2013-03-07 14:13:12 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ugh, nevermind.


I feel for you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#77 - 2013-03-07 14:16:41 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:



Well get 2500DPS from a vindicator is not really hard and I can't see any T3 doing this like you claim, hell even a Talos does 1600 or a Brutix 1200

Again, your problem is not T3's



A cruiser with 800+ dps, 114k ehp and a speed of 1200+ m/s sounds perfectly fine to you?