EVE General Discussion

I like you Steve.

Not sure how you are working out a cost increase and logistical effort increase to be a benefit. And if it is the benefit you claim why isn't nullsec content with it?

So what your saying is that if (as an arbitrary example) every POS factory slot had a +25% Material Efficiency bonus when operated in null sec, there wouldn't be sufficient motivation to move T1 production out to 0.0? And that once prices fell below the high-sec minimum production cost level there would be anyone doing otherwise?

I'm not suggesting that's the solution but it took me all of 1 second to come up with a way to manipulate market forces to make 0.0 more profitable than high-sec in a particular market.

Then again, if I was the CFC and I didn't want an entity to come together in high sec (in much the way goons once did) and one day challenge me, nerfing high sec industry would certainly help me out with that.

If you don't understand how higher costs but faster turnover can earn you more money then I'm just not sure that anything I'm going to say is going to change your mind.

The reaons its not the same for nullsec is that moving materials around is a lot harder (how do you move 1M m3 of trit in 0.0? JF, thats how, high sec you could have an army of alts on uninsured badgers if it suited your fancy) and not all systems have outposts.

I was just trying to provide an obvious example.

And serious manufactures go by (Isk per hour) * SVR

Edit: On second thought, I think there needs to be something beyond a volume advantage. Otherwise your competing against a "newb" with 10 alts producing the same volume in high sec. He may be paying for more alt plexes but I find player behaviour remains the same (whether they ended up with more plex or isk in their wallet) as long as they cross the threshold for profitability over the cost of the plex. Material efficiency is the only counter I can think of to that.

There is some benefit to it but a decrease in margins to counter. Unless your velocity of sales increases on a similar scale to your production capacity, which it likely won't if everyone else is in the same boat producing more with no new demand, you aren't really reaping the benefit. When there is a choice like there is now we have that opportunity. If manufacturing is forced into POS, which was the scenario presented, that's not the case as production time is no longer a comparative benefit.

But that aside he still worked it out to a benefit overall, which means POS vs Outpost production would still have that benefit only putting highsec closer to null in the station/outpost to POS facility ratio. If you want an end result of both being of lower quality with little overall gain and potential exclusion of individuals who for one reason or another aren't in a position to have POS to work with I guess it's the way to go.

So? Comparing is just saying it's tougher for you to have your own empire. We already know this. If you chose to move out to null for its' industry, then that was a poor decision.

Now, if you want to compare null to high in saying that, then use npc null as an example, and you might have something. But null as a whole is definitely in the same boat, regardless if you compare npc or sov null.

For instance... I think npc null should have higher industry levels than sov null, but less than empire highsec. 1 being sansha etc are "pirate" so therefore aren't likely to have the same soort of technological advances in regards to refining and whatnot. Bult ultimately is considered a stronger/more populated force than sov in null by numbers.

Going with that platform, I'd say it would be easier to argue for npc null to get a better equivalent to industry since npc stations (regardless of standings" will still support agents and offices and trades for anyone, regardless of race/corp. Without the harassment from faction police to boot (which is a bonus above highsec).

So maybe there should be a change, in regards to WHAT you build, concerning the faction of area you are in. ex- Stain npc having a bonus to production of pirate faction items., SOV space located in racial district having bonuses to that as well.

Not as a highsec versus null. We all know the conflict of eve is to create conflict, not dumb it down. So why not look at lateral shifts to get a better bonus/enhancement to the areas instead of comparing?

Otherwise everyone is just acting like the publord they accuse others of being.

In my experience the increase in production always justifies the shrinking of the margin. If the margin was that small in the first place it probably wasn't worth producing outside the POS anyhow. Anyhow I was primarily pointing out that its not accurate to catagorize it as a "cost increase" without allluding to the fact that your are producing a greater amount.

My primary point is that if null sec industrialists are to compete with high-sec industrialists (and I have a hard time believing that even you think they should actually be at a disadvantage as opposed to on an even footing) then something needs to change, either null sec needs to be far more profitable or there needs to be risk and/or greater costs associated with high sec production. Without that the status quo will simply remain. The risk you take with making Null sec more profitable while leaving high sec completely intact is that you risk making null sec too profitable and ruininig the whole concept of scarcity which keeps ISK relevant.

I agree, unfortunately, that is also from this side of the coin. You can easily search my posts and see where I am the one that starts the fight. But good luck finding one.

Null sec is already better than hi sec for industry. You can build anything in Null. Sure there is risk involved and the logistics (which are not hard) can be annoying at times. The only thing Empire has over Null sec is the trading hubs.