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SP game breaking for new players. Please take your time to read this CCP.

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Author
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#521 - 2013-04-30 14:02:12 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:

True, but the same also applies to minmatar cruisers too, where a fair amount are a mix of projectile/ missile and drone capabilities, so training for those is still longer than more traditional designs with the amarr or caldari.


The main reason why after having been playing the game now for 10 years is that minmatar have the most even balanced ships in the game, given their ability to do all damage types with projectiles or autocannons, the same applies for missiles and you can add FOF missiles even when hostiles have you locked and ECM'd, and also use drones yourself, which can be the ECM variety to jam other targets.


I few everything in game and have nearly 100 million skill points in ship command alone and yes, the 200 million mark is coming by late next month, and while every race has excellent ships in their own right, they come up a little short in versatility in a variety of environments and it's a quality that doesn't translate in a DPS chart and is up to the pilot to have a setup that can handle a variety of situations effectively.

I totally agree with you that skill points are needed to round out and really take full advantage of any ship. My point is that most new players can have the skill points to fly a battleship long before they can afford to lose it. Sure a player like yourself with vast knowledge of EVE can start a new character and make good isk very quickly. But someone new to EVE will have a much harder time getting the isk to flow. In your last post you mentioned how skill intensive the Typhoon is. Yes I know, it is one of my favorite ships. I like the mirco that goes along with needing to use 3 weapon systems to get the most out of the ship. But that is not a realistic goal for a new player.

My main character only has about 50 million skill points, and I have a long way to go to reach my long term goals. I can easily make 60 million isk/hr with one account. But losing a battleship still hurts my wallet.

When I think back to when I first started EVE I was excited to make my first million isk. I took me about a week. 10 million was a couple weeks later. But I was playing for about 4 months before I bought my first battleship. I tried to run level 4 missions with it, I only did 3 or 4 missions before I lost it. I had no where near enough isk to replace it. I could have rage quit at this point and blamed EVE for not being a new player friendly environment. but I did not. I ended up going back to my Cane for a couple months and polishing up my support skills and earning the isk to buy another battleship. My next battleship I had for months before losing it, but at first many level 4 missions took me over 1 hour to complete.

Now at 50M SP I can run level 4 missions in about 20 min, I rarely find my self in danger of losing my ship, and can easily afford to replace it. I am not yet ready to pursue capital ships although I do meet the perquisites for the skills. If I had the isk to buy the skill books and the ship I could be in a dread or carrier in only a few weeks. But I would need to scape together every isk I had and liquidate most of my assets just to buy one. The I could lose int within minutes of undocking it. I certainly do not have the isk to replace it as I could barely afford to buy it.

Here lies the basics of what I am trying to get across. SP wise I could easily be into a capital ship within a few weeks, or a month at most. But I can not afford to lose a capital ship, So I am not ready to fly one. Just like a new player can have the skill points to fly a battleship long before they can afford to lose one. Skill Points are not the limiting factor here, isk is. Sure I could join a null sec alliance and they could supply me with the ships, Just as a new player can join a corp tat will help them get established. But in these situations how much fun you have depends on you participation, not your skill points. The corp or alliance knows what you are ready for better than you do. they will teach you what you need to know, and help you set and reach your goals.

The only time skill points become a choke point for a new player is if they spend a crap load of real money buying PLEX to sell and start the game with way more isk than they know what to do with. I am sure we will both agree that a NEW player that uses PLEX to buy a high skill point character, and the isk needed to get them in a shiny ship is doing it wrong. They will only lose there ship and everything they bought, ending up bitter and ready to rage quit like the OP. you can not buy your way up in EVE, you need the experience and knowledge acquired through working your way up from the bottom to survive in the more expensive ships.
Choc talar
Miners Legion
Already Replaced.
#522 - 2013-04-30 21:12:59 UTC
Lets try to answer you questions sincerely and honestly from the view point of the community shall we.

No CCP should not nerf the SP issue (ie make them shorter and or quicker) that would simply destroy the game mechanics. Besides this the average MMO today is in complete dumb down mode to make the game . . . more accessible . . . and all they ever end up doing is angering the old guards in the various communities and destroying the game.

The fact of the matter is that you can easily be an effective pilot in EVE much quicker than 1.5-2 years time. If you want to mine mine and you can easily be an a completely outfitted and effective tanked Hulk in 3-4 months with the right planning. Don't want to mine that's fine work into a frigate. It takes a few weeks to effectively fly a rifter fit for PvP as a speed tank and a tackle (which every fleet in EVE uses regularly.

While it is nice you brought some RL friends into the game with you the fact is that you need to also makes friends within EVE who you can fly with regularly. Join a corp or faction warfare and no matter what ship you can currently fly you will find a place to fit in and make a home. There are kinds of ships you can eventually work your way into, but yes it takes time and commitment. If you think it should be quick and easy to just come into EVE and fly something like a carrier in a few months than your in the wrong game. SP is also a way that forces a player to hopefully gain experience before they jump into the expensive ships so hopefully they won't just lose them. Keep in mind however that no matter the experience it is always possible to lose a ship in PvP.

I am no where near the ships I would love to fly and I have been playing off and on for quite awhile (taking breaks to deploy to such wonderful **** holes as Iraq periodically) but I love the game for what it is and still work towards my end goals. However, once to where I want to be I often change my mind and go towards something new.

Take a moment to think about the anger that would arise if you have been playing EVE for quite sometime and have worked to earn the SP, the ships, and the notoriety only to find out that CCP was now going to change EVE so that all of your work meant nothing and any noob could suddenly fly everything you worked hard towards in a few weeks or months. That would be a complete slap in the face to everyone, like you, who had worked hard and earned it.

Lets set a few things straight shall we. EVE is the only MMO who has continued to grow every year since its inception and that's quite a feat. It doesn't matter if they grew because of new players or existing players alts, money is money either way and facts are facts: those facts are that EVE is different from any other cookie cutter MMO out there and those who start playing and remain do so because they begin to love EVE for what EVE is, and that it is completely different. The game is not full of 8-12 year old WOW heads that play by button mashing and have the ability to deeply understand only that a game is pretty or easy enough for their mentality. EVE is however full of mature adults who can appreciate putting time and effort into accomplishing things in a game that are not possible in any other game (whether they are mature 15 year olds or 50 year olds). EVE players have the ability and the mentality to stay the course and eventually build something that means well . . . something, whether that is complete sov over a null system to a complete region that they are dedicated in defending and keeping.

The question I would have to ask you is what exactly is it that you are hoping to or dreaming of flying that is going to take you 1.5-2 years to learn. If it is something like a capital ship than yes it will take you awhile; to put it in a classic CCP montra its working as intended. Train levels in cybertech and buy implants to boost stats, they go a long way in reducing training time as skills are associated with a particular stat or stats. Trust me, even the lower end implants can reduce training times considerably.
Zedutchman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#523 - 2013-05-01 00:26:22 UTC
I honestly Have no idea what it would take 1.5 years to learn..... I could fly a Titan In 8 months of training......

You can be effective in almost any ship you want in a month or two. Which I understand is frustrating, but hardly over-the-top. If your looking to Tech II every slot and every rig then yes it WILL take a while, but that's a bonus in most situations rather than a necessity.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#524 - 2013-05-01 08:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: DeLindsay
There are way too many pages to read so I will reply to the OP and his initial comments. Firstly I have played on/off since 2006 but I have at least 2 friends who never stopped training in all that time and have more than double my SP. One of those friends STILL cannot fly a single Capitol Ship, the other has the training but only pulls out his Carrier. So after 7 years you would think that the Capitol Pilot wins Eve and the sub cap pilot is useless, making me and my SP even more useless right? Wrong, and here's why. SP means a whole lot of nothing (for the most part). The skills YOU gain while playing and tactics YOU employ may give you an edge over a player that's been here since day 1.

As an example, there used to be a T1 only Frigate PvP University near my home area some time ago. Their rules were simple, they took anyone and taught them how to PvP but you had to use a T1 Frigate with nothing better than T2 modules on it (no Faction/Deadspace/Officer). You had to listen to the FC (Fleet Commander) and you could leave at any time. I attended it for a short time not because I was new but because it seemed fun (my PvP alt). It was CRAZY fun and to watch a pack of T1 Frigates killing BATTLESHIPS was amazing!! The point is no matter what ship you fly, if you learn to fly it well, you WILL be effective.

Quote:
Just to be slightly effective it takes about 1.5 years of training. Then you have some of the basics and can still not do anything special.


Not true, you can be VERY effective in ships up to and including Battleships in < 1yr. You can even get into Incursions with a BS in just over 1 month (not wise but there are fleets that take in newer players this way to teach them). You can be EXTREMELY effective in ANY Frigate sized ship (there are sooo many choices) in less than 3 months. Most newer players completely over look Frigate sized hulls but I'm here to tell you they can be VERY deadly.

Quote:
Could you imagine starting to play WOW right now and have to grind through all of those expansions just to start playing the game at 90... Then the game only starts right?


I also played Wow for almost 5 years (sorry Eve peeps, don't hate me) and this is EXACTLY what you have to do. To be fair, WoW has a LOT higher "grind" than Eve does. You literally CANNOT compete with ANY level 90 if you are level 89 or less. Even if that level 90 has only been 90 for a month, the stats/abilities are skewed soo horribly against anything not max level. In Eve a 2-6 month old toon can and do on a regular basis destroy ships/pods of players who have been around for YEARS. It's all about timing/tactics and just like any other MMO, who has the most on their side.

Quote:
Battle cruisers were a huge win for new players as it didn't take too long to fly them and now it's even taking that small win away from new players.


They're not being taken away, the training is actually shorter than before for a single race's BC. Since it takes longer to train for additional Races, this is not a nerf/kick in the bawlz to anyone with any amount of SP. Trust me, most new players seem to think they just have to get into a Battleship as soon as possible because that's the "end game" of Eve and they can't do anything of any value without said BS. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Hell I'd wager real money that there are players with 50+ mil SP that can't even SIT in a single BS due to being Trade/Mining/Industrial/Builder/etc types. I know a guy in game who spent nearly 2 years just maxing out everything for Frigates, and all types of Frigates cause he loved flying them so much and was soo effective in them.

Quote:
I am sure the long SP training ques are CCP's way of "milking" $ out of us.


Don't even insult the Eve community with this comment until you have played WoW and dealt with the REAL money pirates of MMO's. Blizzard charges for every damn thing in that game. CCP charges for very little and you can even play the game for free with a little bit of time invested. The long SP ques are to keep older players from capping out. Even still some must be close by now.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".

Indigo Balmora
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#525 - 2013-05-02 09:03:19 UTC
New player here, quit the game when I realized I needed two accounts or more just to fly around and do a novice plex in faction warfare. Returning now because my buddy who invited me said she'd give me a plex if I did train that hauler alt after all.

Talk about hand holding... I can't do even a "novice" plex by myself, because non-novices in faction ships can enter and simply kill me from further away than I can shoot. I can't go through a gate by myself. Every time my corp went on roam they'd end up giving me isk after my ship blew up and I couldn't participate more because I didn't have a logistics chain to replace my ship every 10 seconds for however long I'd be online for that day.... it wasn't the isk. It was the frustration of not. being. able. to. DO. anything.

As a new player who doesn't have vast game knowledge and experience to make up for the lack of skillpoints, my options for making isk and getting new ships are: have my corp hold my hand, or have my friends hold my hand.

When I say I can't do anything, I mean I can't do anything without feeling like I'm wearing diapers and being spoonfed.

Told my corp I'd be training a hauler alt so I could replace my ships, seems they kicked me a few days ago. Whatever. If not for my buddy I wouldn't be playing at all.
Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
#526 - 2013-05-02 10:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nagnor
Indigo Balmora wrote:


As a new player who doesn't have vast game knowledge and experience to make up for the lack of skillpoints, my options for making isk and getting new ships are: have my corp hold my hand, or have my friends hold my hand.


Big smile You're upset because you can't keep on spending ISK/ships (in armed conflict) without having proper income Big smile
What do you do in Real Life? Are you a kid/adolescent leeching of your parents or somebody leeching of social welfare?

HTFU. Get your income side in order before going on spending streak!
You could try variants which have little risk of losses, like mining or mission running. Again don't go immediately for the top, but start with lvl 2/3. You might actually learn something, like running them without losing ships and developing experience which enable you to minimize losses when you go FW or on corp roam.
Maynard J Keenan
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#527 - 2013-05-02 10:42:40 UTC
Indigo Balmora wrote:
New player here, quit the game when I realized I needed two accounts or more just to fly around and do a novice plex in faction warfare. Returning now because my buddy who invited me said she'd give me a plex if I did train that hauler alt after all.

Talk about hand holding... I can't do even a "novice" plex by myself


Learn to use the scanner to avoid fights you don't want, its really easy to take novice plexes, hell i've taken a small in a rookie ship before.

My character is three months old and earns all his cash through faction warfare and can afford t2 fit frigates with plenty of money to spare flying solo or with one or two others. Anyone with 1mil sp can join a fw corp and help out, learn the ropes of pvp and earn money through plexes, hell if you are really that strapped for cash train cloaking and be one of those douchebags who cloak up when people come into the plex.

Also dont play minmatar fw, amarr suck too bad for a new player to earn cash plexing, there are like 2 places to plex in.
Abaroth Charmar
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#528 - 2013-05-02 13:09:49 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

I can easily make 60 million isk/hr with one account. But losing a battleship still hurts my wallet.

This is terrible. Do not say this as if it were a good thing.

Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

I can run level 4 missions in about 20 min.

You're never going to get space rich running 4s, ever.

Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

If I had the isk to buy the skill books and the ship I could be in a dread or carrier in only a few weeks. But I would need to scape together every isk I had and liquidate most of my assets just to buy one. The I could lose int within minutes of undocking it. I certainly do not have the isk to replace it as I could barely afford to buy it.

50 mill SP, 2 year old character that needs to liquidate almost everything for a Carrier (roughly 2 bill fully fit)?

You're doing Eve wrong.
Indigo Balmora
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#529 - 2013-05-02 16:45:24 UTC
Nagnor wrote:
Indigo Balmora wrote:


As a new player who doesn't have vast game knowledge and experience to make up for the lack of skillpoints, my options for making isk and getting new ships are: have my corp hold my hand, or have my friends hold my hand.


Big smile You're upset because you can't keep on spending ISK/ships (in armed conflict) without having proper income Big smile
What do you do in Real Life? Are you a kid/adolescent leeching of your parents or somebody leeching of social welfare?


No, I'm upset because I can't do it myself via combat, as I was told. People keep saying it's about the isk, it's not. My corpmates gave me isk. I just couldn't EARN it myself! What's adolescent about wanting to be able to make your own income? You just trolling?

Will have to start a boring pve alt or take a month to learn better skills in order to make isk to replace ships when I was told faction warfare was lots of isk and easy for a 3-day new pilot to replace their ships! I trained for a week thought that would be better than 3 days but I guess not!

I did use the scanner, doesn't help against gatecamps or tacklers that hold you down for their 3 buddies to come gank you, or well skilled pilots that can scram you literally in the last second before you get away because they can do it from 30km. At that point I didn't even know ships could shoot that far... my ship hit 6km? lol

Do you even remember what it's like to be new? Dude.
Haulie Berry
#530 - 2013-05-02 17:14:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Indigo Balmora wrote:
Nagnor wrote:
Indigo Balmora wrote:


As a new player who doesn't have vast game knowledge and experience to make up for the lack of skillpoints, my options for making isk and getting new ships are: have my corp hold my hand, or have my friends hold my hand.


Big smile You're upset because you can't keep on spending ISK/ships (in armed conflict) without having proper income Big smile
What do you do in Real Life? Are you a kid/adolescent leeching of your parents or somebody leeching of social welfare?


No, I'm upset because I can't do it myself via combat, as I was told. People keep saying it's about the isk, it's not. My corpmates gave me isk. I just couldn't EARN it myself! What's adolescent about wanting to be able to make your own income? You just trolling?




Uh... why not?

Quote:
Do you even remember what it's like to be new? Dude.


I do! I did a bunch of things early on for money (and it was harder, back in 2005 - there were fewer options, and fewer instructional resources available. FW didn't exist, so farming that was right out).

After the tutorial, I jumped into level 1 missions. They were okay. Did that for a day or two. Started tinkering with the market and noticed that, if I had a big enough ship, I could buy some stuff in one place, fly it somewhere else, and sell it for more money, so I took a few hours and trained up for a bestower. Did that for a little bit, but man was it painful flying that pig 15 km from warpin to the gate every jump.

Trained for a cruiser and bought an omen. Was pretty damn unimpressed with it. Took my bestower and slapped a mining laser on it, went and shot at kernite for a bit. Decided that was too slow, packed some GSCs into my bestower, anchored them in the belt, put some mining lasers on my omen, and did it that way.

That lasted for a day or two before I decided mining just wasn't going to work for me. Traded in my Omen for a Maller after I made it to cruiser 3 because surely more expensive means more-better, right?!?

Around here I started in on level 2 missions. Didn't take long before I decided I didn't care for them. Went exploring (and by this I mean, "flew from system to system to see what was out there", not Exploration with probes) and came across a "Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestation". Hmmm. Went on in, killed some drones, found some loot can, got a shadow serpentis kinetic armor hardener out of it - whoa, what's that? To the forums! What's this thing worth?

I forget how much it was - 20 million maybe - but it was enough that I was, from my perspective, basically SPACERICH! I sold it via the Escrow system and reveled in my newfound wealth before I decided to go find another one of those things because I needed to be even more space-rich (and, to this day, I have not seen another faction drop from a RDAI plex). Decided I needed a way to farm them faster - those medium lasers were bull **** for shooting drones. Refit my trusty maller with small lasers and went back to work. Still didn't like it much, which was when I decided that, hey, these things like to rush in and orbit me at point blank range, so maybe what I really need is...

...smartbombs. Lots and lots of smartbombs. Smartbombs, and cap rechargers, yes, that's the ticket.

Surprisingly, this adventure did not end in CONCORDOKKEN, but I inevitably got frustrated with the lack of good loot (and downtime), so I ventured out to look for more and different complexes. I wandered into low-sec at some point and, while tinkering with d-scan, saw a "True sansha somethingorother" (once upon a time, rats showed on d-scan). So, I flew around looking for this thing and eventually found it and what the hell is a low-grade slave epsilon??? Oh man, and here I thought I was spacerich before!

And so on and so forth. At some point I moved to Gammel, which had a mulzatah monastery (blood 4/10) and another one right next door in uh... Anka? I think it was Anka. Wait, no... Sosala, I think. Anyway, there were some sansha 3/10 not far away, too. There were some Russian miners who lived there and happened to jetcan mine, so I pilfered their haul with my bestower and was delighted with the result (free money + enraged Russian miners yelling in local).

I roll my eyes whenever I hear a new player complaining that they can't do anything. That's not because I don't remember what it was like to be a newb. It's because I DO remember what it was like to be a newb.
Boe Harknes
The FreeThought Society
#531 - 2013-05-03 13:22:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Boe Harknes
Indigo Balmora wrote:
Nagnor wrote:
Indigo Balmora wrote:


As a new player who doesn't have vast game knowledge and experience to make up for the lack of skillpoints, my options for making isk and getting new ships are: have my corp hold my hand, or have my friends hold my hand.


Big smile You're upset because you can't keep on spending ISK/ships (in armed conflict) without having proper income Big smile
What do you do in Real Life? Are you a kid/adolescent leeching of your parents or somebody leeching of social welfare?


No, I'm upset because I can't do it myself via combat, as I was told. People keep saying it's about the isk, it's not. My corpmates gave me isk. I just couldn't EARN it myself! What's adolescent about wanting to be able to make your own income? You just trolling?

Will have to start a boring pve alt or take a month to learn better skills in order to make isk to replace ships when I was told faction warfare was lots of isk and easy for a 3-day new pilot to replace their ships! I trained for a week thought that would be better than 3 days but I guess not!

I did use the scanner, doesn't help against gatecamps or tacklers that hold you down for their 3 buddies to come gank you, or well skilled pilots that can scram you literally in the last second before you get away because they can do it from 30km. At that point I didn't even know ships could shoot that far... my ship hit 6km? lol

Do you even remember what it's like to be new? Dude.


So basicly you are upset at your lack of knowledge and skill in the game. This is understandable becuase i was very frustrated with fitting my ships. Basicly there was too much for me to process at once. I think you need to take a time out practice and train your character up. Run some level 2/3 missions to get a feel for where you are more comfortable fighting at. Get use to managing your tanks and positioning your ship.

To answer what is adolescent about wanting to earn your own income is you are raging and asking for other people to tell you what to do instead of trying something else.Trying to make alot of money through PVP as a new pilot does not sound easy at all. Lack of patients is your biggest issue. I have 70 days left of training before I am even thinking about PVP and that is just to get my certs to standard for firgates and there respective tanks and weapon types.

If you really wanna continue your path of PVP i recomend investing in a PLEX so you have 510mil isk to support your growing pains. PVP frigs can be fit properly for about 4-7 mill from what I have read. so with one plex you should be able to get blown up quite a few times as you learn.

This is not meant to be a jab or an insult. I understand what you are going through with some of the frustrations. Once I accepted what the game is and that it is nothing like any MMO I played before I have been happy. It really takes me back to my old EQ days where you need to rely on other people to help you.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#532 - 2013-05-03 15:26:37 UTC
Indigo Balmora wrote:
Nagnor wrote:
Indigo Balmora wrote:


As a new player who doesn't have vast game knowledge and experience to make up for the lack of skillpoints, my options for making isk and getting new ships are: have my corp hold my hand, or have my friends hold my hand.


Big smile You're upset because you can't keep on spending ISK/ships (in armed conflict) without having proper income Big smile
What do you do in Real Life? Are you a kid/adolescent leeching of your parents or somebody leeching of social welfare?


No, I'm upset because I can't do it myself via combat, as I was told. People keep saying it's about the isk, it's not. My corpmates gave me isk. I just couldn't EARN it myself! What's adolescent about wanting to be able to make your own income? You just trolling?

Will have to start a boring pve alt or take a month to learn better skills in order to make isk to replace ships when I was told faction warfare was lots of isk and easy for a 3-day new pilot to replace their ships! I trained for a week thought that would be better than 3 days but I guess not!

I did use the scanner, doesn't help against gatecamps or tacklers that hold you down for their 3 buddies to come gank you, or well skilled pilots that can scram you literally in the last second before you get away because they can do it from 30km. At that point I didn't even know ships could shoot that far... my ship hit 6km? lol

Do you even remember what it's like to be new? Dude.


Your in FW! Capture a plex and get 10k LP.... which is approximately 10m isk! You also get LP for every opponent you kill, and you can collect tags from NPC rats you must kill in enemy plexes, too (some of which are worth 1m a piece). Finally, don't get me started on FW mission, which are also a major source of income to anyone in a SB. In short, if you can't make isk in FW, you're just not trying to. Now, I understand you can spend isk wildly, and if you'll have the tendency to lose more ships as you learn the ropes, so be frugal while you learn. I just don't believe you can't "earn isk yourself" in FW.

And the scanner is to help you scout while in system. It helps you locate ships in space, which is very useful for avoiding enemies and finding targets. I'll admit that using the dscanner in lowsec, with more POS trash and ships in general, is more difficult because of the amount of stuff on scan can be overwhelming, but learning to set appropriate scan ranges, overview filters, and when/where to narrow the scan angle allows you to use the dscanner to get very useful intel.

Oylpann Kumamato
Empty You
#533 - 2013-05-04 01:30:35 UTC
This character has a little over 17m sp and I did start from scratch, with no help and no other friends already playing game because they are too scared to give it a try, mainly because Eve has this repuatation that everyone is going to blow your **** up and steal your first born as soon as you log into the game.

In my opinion, the "skillpoint wall" is not an issue. I did get stuck after about two months due to not having the isk to buy a 50mil battlecruiser and my cruiser wasnt cutting it in level 3 missions. I bought a plex and took care of that. Thats the only time I've been "stuck" in this game not being able to do something. Eve has a STEEP learning curve but thats also what makes it fun, challenging and truly rewarding.

I cant see OP friends leaving in a short time due to the "skillpoint wall" unless they just watched one too many youtube videos before hand and though zomg! Carriers and fleet battles as soon as I log in!

More likely they got upset when they got blown up and rage quit after they realized you dont "respawn" with everything you had prior to getting shot.
Nometh Xergent
#534 - 2013-05-04 10:16:06 UTC
I love the SP - i think the SP makes EVE a little more special than other games.
Simply because of how you 'train' forwards your goal or what you want to fly.
1. You train your skills to have access to the module, the ship or the actions you want to make.
2. You train yourself how to fly your ship, your strategies, e.t.c.
I mean you can't master any one else imo, you can master yourself with your skills about how to do things your way.


I mean, the game is a little intern i would say, and if you dont like the gameplay or the actions, just take a break and think over or start another game. I Mean it's bullshit you have to train 1 year or more to be a "decent" player, aslong as you think you are good with what your doing thats what matters in my honest opinion.

“I’ve always loathed the necessity of sleep. Like death, it puts even the most powerful men on their backs.”

Aivo Dresden
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#535 - 2013-05-05 12:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
This is my character, it's like 2 weeks old (EVEboard). I have great fun with it. I have done the Sisters of EVE epic arc, I have trained up some exploration skills and I'm going to have a look at this planetary interaction thing tonight or so.

I've done some PvP in a little Condor, I tried minig and industry but it wasn't really my thing.

I think there's a lot of jealousy and SP-greed in this thread, just play the game. If you think the game will suddenly be THAT much more awesome when you have another 10 mill SP and a few more ships to pick from, you are so wrong.

Edit: I read some people say they run short on isk... I did the 5 starter careers which gave me enough to buy and fit a Caracal. Then I did the SoE quest line which put about 80 mill in my pocket. More than enough to replace 1-2 mill Condor losses, or maybe even a Battlecruiser, in the future.
xHank
State War Academy
Caldari State
#536 - 2013-05-05 13:42:01 UTC
Whats the big problem about beeing new?

Within 1-2 month u can fly perfect t2 frigate and u can compete with 100mil + SP chars..

Ofcoarse many noobs wanna fly big ships.. Well thats not gonna work. First learn to fly in the small ships, u can always go to bigger ships later on. Also in beginning u wont have the isk to buy a big ship.. Always remember dont fly something u cant afford to lose.

Also dont waste any SP into big ships when ur noob, spent all ur SP into one single t2 frig and pewpew.. Pretty easy bro ^^
Vega Makutu
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#537 - 2013-05-07 00:16:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vega Makutu
I don't have even 2mil skill points yet.

But I can fly a frigate and tackle big ships so that the rest of the fleet can kill them.

I can scout ahead and warn my fleet of gate camps along our route.

I can cover our trail so another fleet can't sneak up behind us.

I can go cloak in a dangerous solar system and provide Intel to my corp, or alliance.

I can zip around and be a pirate and/or salvager of wrecks for decent isk.
*
I don't even want a battleship yet. At best, my goal is to train for covert ops frigates, starting with the cheetah or the hound. Being able to warp while cloaked makes me so much harder to find, and opens up new possibilities.

I am not going to wait around in station until I reach some magic number of skill points, not when I can go out and cause trouble right now. ;)
xPredat0rz
Grey Templars
The Initiative.
#538 - 2013-05-07 02:38:45 UTC
Yeah not understanding your complaints. I have 12 accounts. Trained all them up to do what i want with each one. I have a carrier account for each race(plus some extra) a Super capable pilot(too lazy to commit to coffin yet) 4 mining accounts a few freighter accounts and some odds and ends stuff.


My newest account is less then 4 months old and already runs level 3 missions that I grinded the standings for within a week.(Train Connections to 3. profit)

Eve is complicated. I use multiple income streams to plex all of my accounts and still pvp. I played this game for a month before i decided to sub 2 more accounts. Yes you need alts, not to play properly, but to expiriance as much as possible. I have been playing for 3 years nowish. I can fly both armor and shield tank have t2 large lasers and hybrids t2 missile skills(all but cruise) Can fly all races Battleships and maruaders and Black ops for amarr. I have perfect Jump drive skills can fly amarr dreads and carrier with rep and drone skills.

Can fly 2 races T3 cruisers, Recons, HACs, Hictors, Logis

Can fly 3 races T2 Frigates EAF, Ceptors, SB/Cov Ops, AF

So in double the time to play this game as you say i have maxed out skills to fly about half the ships in the game.

Capital skills, BS 5 the large guns to 5, jump skills, and the t2 BS ships account for most of that extra year or so.

Most people consider this to be end game type content.

So tell me how you need 1.5 years just to have fun?

I killed my first ship less then 2 weeks into the game. Was during hulkageddon and we suicide ganked some hulks. Decided from there i was going to pvp.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#539 - 2013-05-07 03:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: OfBalance
xPredat0rz wrote:
Yeah not understanding your complaints. I have 12 accounts.


I actually disagree with the OP, but your post reminded me of why his argument appears valid to many newbies.
Vega Makutu
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#540 - 2013-05-07 04:21:19 UTC
Quote:
No, my (and other people like myself's) problems are mostly borne from the attitude of elitist jerks who feel they have a right to an infinite advantage over newer players simply because they started playing the game earlier.


So, say you had a character with max skillpoints in everything. Your big giant awesome ship is still limited by game mechanics. You can still die to a pack of rifters.

Then you and people like you will come here to the forums and whine and complain about how broken the game is, and us "elitists jerks" will only hope that ccp doesn't cave in and become blinded by dollar signs.

I am telling you, and people like you, that SKILLPOINTS AREN'T A PROBLEM HERE.

Stop thinking that we are being elitist jerks for trying to steer this game away from the mainstream attitude of instant gratification and everyone wins even if you lost.

I don't want the skillpoints to change, i don't want the mechanics to change, i think those things are fine. What i want to have changed is the attitude that MMO's must be able to be played solo with ease.

If you think the game is too hard for new players, then help them! Hang out in rookie chat and give advice and explain things. Start a corp dedicated to teaching new players how the game works. And STOP telling yourself that you or someone else are unable to play the game because X.