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Change How War Decs Work In EvE Online
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Shinta Kobi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#21 - 2013-03-12 17:51:52 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Shinta Kobi wrote:
Sublime Rage wrote:
CCP gave the agressed one of the greatest tools they have to defend themselves,war assistance.Before making it sound like it's impossible to fight back start looking at your choices,start looking for friends,allies,mercs....spending money to defend against a war doesn't seem like a broken mechanic.

In my personal opinion the war system is more balanced today than it was before.

Working as intended,for the time being


Actually, corps that offer assistance for a price are usually scammers and never do anything to help, hence the reason why most people don't accept and is a broken tool.


scams do not break helping in war decs in the same way that scams do not break trading through contracts.

the scammers still inherit the dec, everything after that is sand box.


The scammers can make corps at will with a fresh alt and have no issue with a wardec. A scam is a scam.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#22 - 2013-03-12 18:08:34 UTC
Shinta Kobi wrote:


The scammers can make corps at will with a fresh alt and have no issue with a wardec. A scam is a scam.


precisely. its a scam by the player not the system.

if wardecs are broken by scams then so is contracts and station trading.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#23 - 2013-03-12 19:00:49 UTC
Neidrig wrote:
It is time to put an end to High Sec War Decs or at least make them prohibitively expensive and contestable.

I have the basic right to play EVE the way I choose to play the game and be left alone. If I want to engage in PVP I can go to Low Sec, 0.0 or WH Space.

For all those who put forth this insane argument that EVE is a sandbox and just being their means you can be jumped and destroyed by any sociopath who feels like it, it is time to grow up.

It is time for EVE to grow up.

If leaving high sec as a completely PVP free zone ruins the game for this small set of High Sec PVP players perhaps it is time for them to rage quit.

It is intrinsically unfair that one group of players gets to enjoy their preferred form of game play by ruining the game experience of others.

It is time to make non consensual high sec PVP as extinct as can flipping.

With war dec mechanics as they are, conspicuous, new player friendly industrial corps are played upon with no respite. I have seen corp after corp disband under this unrelenting pressure.

Can EVE or CCP afford to have this be the new player experience.

Those who support this position have been too quiet. I intend to change this.


This. Right here. I hereby award you Best Troll Post of March 12, 2013. Congratulations. You will be awarded One Thousand Splendid Furriers for your incomparable victory.
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#24 - 2013-03-12 21:51:22 UTC
Neidrig wrote:
It is time to put an end to High Sec War Decs or at least make them prohibitively expensive and contestable.

I have the basic right to play EVE the way I choose to play the game and be left alone. If I want to engage in PVP I can go to Low Sec, 0.0 or WH Space.

For all those who put forth this insane argument that EVE is a sandbox and just being their means you can be jumped and destroyed by any sociopath who feels like it, it is time to grow up.

It is time for EVE to grow up.

If leaving high sec as a completely PVP free zone ruins the game for this small set of High Sec PVP players perhaps it is time for them to rage quit.

It is intrinsically unfair that one group of players gets to enjoy their preferred form of game play by ruining the game experience of others.

It is time to make non consensual high sec PVP as extinct as can flipping.

With war dec mechanics as they are, conspicuous, new player friendly industrial corps are played upon with no respite. I have seen corp after corp disband under this unrelenting pressure.

Can EVE or CCP afford to have this be the new player experience.

Those who support this position have been too quiet. I intend to change this.


I think what you and the OP are looking for is a single player version of EVE, or rather a version that you can access with your freinds through a local area network.

Sadly this doesn't exist. And to assume that people in highsec can affect the game of everybody else without consequence is kind of silly.
Cpt Mangrum
P.O.Box
#25 - 2013-03-12 22:18:15 UTC
This suggestion is dumb leave the wardec mechanics alone!!!!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-03-12 22:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Neidrig wrote:
I have the basic right to play EVE the way I choose to play the game and be left alone. If I want to engage in PVP I can go to Low Sec, 0.0 or WH Space.


Your subscription allows you to log into the game and play it, but it doesn't entitle you to be left alone. It's called "massively multiplayer" for a reason.

If you can't stand that, try one of those theme-park MMOs where you can opt out of PvP. This isn't one of them.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lord Whisker
NetFlix Whilst Playing Eve
#27 - 2013-05-01 16:44:34 UTC
Andski wrote:
Neidrig wrote:
I have the basic right to play EVE the way I choose to play the game and be left alone. If I want to engage in PVP I can go to Low Sec, 0.0 or WH Space.


Your subscription allows you to log into the game and play it, but it doesn't entitle you to be left alone. It's called "massively multiplayer" for a reason.

If you can't stand that, try one of those theme-park MMOs where you can opt out of PvP. This isn't one of them.


Really, WOW is massively multiplayer, seems to have millions of players and look, people cant be ganked non stop unless THEY CHOOSE TO PVP, working as intended? lol, don't make me laugh, what a pile of crok.

You are a prime example of empire pvp players

You don't like change, u don't like anything to do with empire becoming safer

You sit in your huge 0.0 alliances blue everyone around you and then ***** when empire players want your empire alt griefer corps nerfed.

You - part of the problem - issue needs to be fixed

Simple as that.

If you want people to shoot at, stop blueing half of null sec and fight each other, leave empire miners/mission runners/incursion runners alone, we should not be forced to play your version of eve online.

End of story
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2013-05-01 17:16:51 UTC
Lord Whisker wrote:
Andski wrote:
Neidrig wrote:
I have the basic right to play EVE the way I choose to play the game and be left alone. If I want to engage in PVP I can go to Low Sec, 0.0 or WH Space.


Your subscription allows you to log into the game and play it, but it doesn't entitle you to be left alone. It's called "massively multiplayer" for a reason.

If you can't stand that, try one of those theme-park MMOs where you can opt out of PvP. This isn't one of them.


Really, WOW is massively multiplayer, seems to have millions of players and look, people cant be ganked non stop unless THEY CHOOSE TO PVP, working as intended? lol, don't make me laugh, what a pile of crok.

You are a prime example of empire pvp players

You don't like change, u don't like anything to do with empire becoming safer

You sit in your huge 0.0 alliances blue everyone around you and then ***** when empire players want your empire alt griefer corps nerfed.

You - part of the problem - issue needs to be fixed

Simple as that.

If you want people to shoot at, stop blueing half of null sec and fight each other, leave empire miners/mission runners/incursion runners alone, we should not be forced to play your version of eve online.

End of story


All I am reading here is WAAAAA! MUMMY CCP! THEY'RE MEAN MAKE THEM STOP! CHANGE THE GAME TO SUIT ME PERSONALLY! WAAAAAAAAAA
Devon Weeks
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-05-01 18:21:24 UTC
The only thing "wrong" with war decs are the same elements of the game wrong with most pvp in high sec. Station games, neutral scouts, neutral remote reps, off grid boosters, etc. At least one of these elements is being addressed soon, the off-grid booster. The biggest issue is station games, in my opinion, with neutral assistance following behind it.

Having a new corp thrown into war immediately after conception is fine. No one is "entitled" to form a corp. You've got to prove you have staying power. You have to earn and secure your place in the list of corps either through strength or stamina. If you decide to organize and fight, though, I do feel you should have options to engage your enemy without them playing station games or using an out of corp logi to get a couple of reps off and running or docking. Those tools certainly need addressing, but the wardec itself is fine.

I have proposed that any neutral involved in remote repping a war target or providing boosts be assimilated into the war for its duration. So, if Johnny wardecs Timmy, then Johnny uses his out of corp logi to tip a fight in his favor, the logi becomes a valid war target for the duration of the war. Station games are something that can be addressed by simply applying the war "bribe" to CONCORDE and only CONCORDE, not the NPC corps running the station. That way, fighting on an NPC station gets you blasted by station guns. That forces the fights into space and make the war deccers have to scan for targets, patrol asteroid belts, and commit to fights. The defender can still be effectively shut down since they can't get through the gates and can't stay secure in mission areas or belts. It just prevents the station games from happening when the defender finally mobilizes to fight. But, I'm sure you know that's it's heresy to suggest griefers have to work for their kills, so I'll propose something else.

Another solution would be to simply make the docking timer longer, something like 5 minutes. That gives a defender time to catch and destroy a war target. But, as it stands right now, griefers just bring hard tanked ships and wait out the timer when the fight doesn't appear to be going their way. Because the timer is so short, the tactic works most of the time. Just extend the timer to remove that tool.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#30 - 2013-05-01 18:28:20 UTC
Lord Whisker wrote:
Andski wrote:
Neidrig wrote:
I have the basic right to play EVE the way I choose to play the game and be left alone. If I want to engage in PVP I can go to Low Sec, 0.0 or WH Space.


Your subscription allows you to log into the game and play it, but it doesn't entitle you to be left alone. It's called "massively multiplayer" for a reason.

If you can't stand that, try one of those theme-park MMOs where you can opt out of PvP. This isn't one of them.


Really, WOW is massively multiplayer, seems to have millions of players and look, people cant be ganked non stop unless THEY CHOOSE TO PVP, working as intended? lol, don't make me laugh, what a pile of crok.

You are a prime example of empire pvp players

You don't like change, u don't like anything to do with empire becoming safer

You sit in your huge 0.0 alliances blue everyone around you and then ***** when empire players want your empire alt griefer corps nerfed.

You - part of the problem - issue needs to be fixed

Simple as that.

If you want people to shoot at, stop blueing half of null sec and fight each other, leave empire miners/mission runners/incursion runners alone, we should not be forced to play your version of eve online.

End of story


If EvE wanted to be WoW, there are many mechanics CCP could change, war decs among them.

Here's the problem: There is a WoW out there already. In fact, there are spaceship flying versions of WoW out there. They are very popular, and maybe you can find yourself happier in them.

There are a few really fun, and really cool facts I'd like to share with you guys: CCP and EvE have been doing this for 10 years. A decade. Really! And the mechanics that upset you so much? Pretty much been here for all that time.

Want to know something else? Every MMO on the market today has been falling in numbers, except two: Age of Wushu (which is brand new) and EvE online. Each year, for better or worse, great expansions or horrible ones, we have more players subscribed than the year before.

Something else that's funny? We're the most expensive subscription MMO on the market. I mean, damn! You'd think, being this old, being so mean and cruel and unfair to new players, and having such a costly subscription system (which many think is outdated, cause hell, even WoW went to a partial free-to-play system which counts towards it subscriber base), that EvE would be dead already.

Can you fathom why it isn't? Can you understand why it's still growing?

Quit. Seriously, leave the game. Go play Star Trek Online or Star Wars the Old Republic, or any other game. The chances are, you'll be back. Because EvE has what those games do not.

Freedom. For all the good and bad that comes with it, this game gives you what no others can or will, and we as players must learn to deal with the responsibilities of that freedom. Protect ourselves. Be on our guard.

Every step you take to infringe on that, this game I've been subscribing to with multiple accounts for so many years, and I take personal offense. You see us as older players trying to put you down. We are older players hoping you'll take up that mantle of responsibility and join the club, without trashing what you don't appreciate yet on your way out the door.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#31 - 2013-05-01 18:37:05 UTC
Lord Whisker wrote:

War Dec's against other corps, the way it's done need's to change i.e against random corps. So, say you want to war dec a corp. You either need to be involved in a act of aggression with that corp i.e they shoot u, if you have a suspect flag, your corp then has rights for 24 hours to war dec that corp, this stops the random decs, now alot of people will say *yeh, but bruv, what about merc corps, dey haz to av a right to dec people init*. Correct, which brings me to the next point.


I'm a split personality type of guy. I don't want to remove war decs and the ability to at will for whatever reason, declare war on another corporation or alliance. It's an old mechanic, but it's an effective mechanic.

On the other side, though, it's like the old escrow system: basic, very broad, and prone to misuse. I made my first 100mil off the old escrow via scams.

The idea that an open, total war between corporations would require some form of 'instigation' seems right and logical to me. I would love to have multiple types of corporation conflicts to further specify and setup the system to be more logical.

To me, it's not about stopping griefing. To me, it's about in-game and in-character immersion. If they can't war dec you, they can do one better and just team up and gank you, and you still lose.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
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