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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#61 - 2013-03-03 19:07:13 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

Been playing since '05 and have seen just as many or even more whines from the hardcore 'elite' PVPers. So your claim is simply false. In fact, I've seen you yourself whine quite more often than any other one "carebear" in the forums.

Yeah yeah. I know, if it's you making the complain then it isn't a whine. It's only a whine when it's coming from one of those pesky "carebears".


The difference between a whine and a complaint is one of facts. I have them and the whiners only have insults.

It's one of the two big misused words around here, the other being cying.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2013-03-03 19:10:02 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


And then Unifex stated one of those things the baltec1 of the game still can't understand:



I see you think that all solo players are bears. I don't make that mistake.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-03-03 19:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
baltec1 wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

Been playing since '05 and have seen just as many or even more whines from the hardcore 'elite' PVPers. So your claim is simply false. In fact, I've seen you yourself whine quite more often than any other one "carebear" in the forums.

Yeah yeah. I know, if it's you making the complain then it isn't a whine. It's only a whine when it's coming from one of those pesky "carebears".


The difference between a whine and a complaint is one of facts. I have them and the whiners only have insults.

It's one of the two big misused words around here, the other being cying.

On the subject of insults, I've seen these thrown out more from the elite PVP camp than from carebears themselves, you included. Carebears and miners are by far the largest targets for 'elitist' PVPers to sling insults and degrading comments against. Since I started playing it's non-stop. So again, I have to call you out on your post above.

From my observation, reason and logic has never explained the level of hate, disdain, and contempt that you and some of the other very vocal anti-carebear players bring to this forum. But to be fair, this behavior isn't unique to Eve alone. However, for whatever reasons, you do tend to be more aggressive and vocal than what I've observed elsewhere.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#64 - 2013-03-03 19:33:58 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

And then Unifex stated one of those things the baltec1 of the game still can't understand:

Quote:
Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility. Essentially the “social value, or social equity” of a player group increases as you move from left to right (on the whiteboard), even though the size of that player group becomes much smaller in number. In other words, the 10,000 combined instigators and enablers become as equally valuable as the much larger lurking population. Unifex admitted that historically, CCP had not been good at balancing their efforts and servicing all groups.


That little bit of conversation was one of the most interesting things i've read in a while.

I bolded the important parts.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#65 - 2013-03-03 19:41:09 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

And then Unifex stated one of those things the baltec1 of the game still can't understand:

Quote:
Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility. Essentially the “social value, or social equity” of a player group increases as you move from left to right (on the whiteboard), even though the size of that player group becomes much smaller in number. In other words, the 10,000 combined instigators and enablers become as equally valuable as the much larger lurking population. Unifex admitted that historically, CCP had not been good at balancing their efforts and servicing all groups.


That little bit of conversation was one of the most interesting things i've read in a while.

I bolded the important parts.


which is the essential point of the xn.ym article I wrote.


Glad to see Unifex is onboard

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2013-03-03 19:44:23 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

On the subject of insults, I've seen these thrown out more from the elite PVP camp than from carebears themselves, you included. Carebears and miners are by far the largest targets for 'elitist' PVPers to sling insults and degrading comments against. Since I started playing it's non-stop. So again, I have to call you out on your post above.

From my observation, reason and logic has never explained the level of hate, disdain, and contempt that you and some of the other very vocal anti-carebear players bring to this forum. But to be fair, this behavior isn't unique to Eve alone. However, for whatever reasons, you do tend to be more aggressive and vocal than what I've observed elsewhere.


I spent 8 months giving out anti gank barge fittings and got nothing but insults back. Sorry but bears are by far the most likely to start throwing around the insults. But please, by all means go find where I have gone out and insulted people right off the bat.

While you're at it, look up the amount of insults that get thrown at me because of my corp and alliance.
Dave stark
#67 - 2013-03-03 19:48:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
insults that get thrown at me because of my corp and alliance.


it's the go to comment when people run out of valid points, doesn't matter what your corp or alliance is.

not in goons but somewhere else? they say they've never heard of you, you're a nobody, hence your voice is irrelevant.
not in a player corp? assumed to be some npc alt hiding, hence your voice is irrelevant.
no matter what corp you are in, because it's not theirs, your voice is irrelevant.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2013-03-03 19:53:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
insults that get thrown at me because of my corp and alliance.


it's the go to comment when people run out of valid points, doesn't matter what your corp or alliance is.

not in goons but somewhere else? they say they've never heard of you, you're a nobody, hence your voice is irrelevant.
not in a player corp? assumed to be some npc alt hiding, hence your voice is irrelevant.
no matter what corp you are in, because it's not theirs, your voice is irrelevant.


True.

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#69 - 2013-03-03 19:55:06 UTC
and they're still crying about the barges Roll

forums.  serious business.
Dave stark
#70 - 2013-03-03 19:56:34 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
and they're still crying about the barges Roll


is that on account that the barge rebalance was terrible and didn't balance the barges in the slightest?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2013-03-03 19:57:38 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
and they're still crying about the barges Roll


See?

That word is losing its meaning because of people like this abusing it.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-03-03 20:11:08 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
is that on account that the barge rebalance was terrible and didn't balance the barges in the slightest?


it wasn't terrible, you might argue they've been overbuffed with regard to tank in some cases but the retriever badly needed a buff as it was an enormous industrial ship made of papermache.

and all the rest of them were worthless once you could fly a hulk.

forums.  serious business.
Dave stark
#73 - 2013-03-03 20:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
is that on account that the barge rebalance was terrible and didn't balance the barges in the slightest?


it wasn't terrible, you might argue they've been overbuffed with regard to tank in some cases but the retriever badly needed a buff as it was an enormous industrial ship made of papermache.

and all the rest of them were worthless once you could fly a hulk.


yes it was, they are in no way balanced.

there are three ships, with three roles. each ship should have the highest of one stat, the lowest of another, and middle of the road for the final stat. that simply isn't the case with any ship but the skiff/procurer (which, ironically as the most "balanced" in that regard is the least used).

as for the rest of them being worthless once you could fly a hulk... you mean like the rest of them being worthless now you can fly a retriever (hell, you don't even need a mackinaw to make the rest of them worthless)?
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#74 - 2013-03-03 20:25:54 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
yes it was, they are in no way balanced.

there are three ships, with three roles. each ship should have the highest of one stat, the lowest of another, and middle of the road for the final stat. that simply isn't the case with any ship but the skiff/procurer (which, ironically as the most "balanced" in that regard is the least used).

as for the rest of them being worthless once you could fly a hulk... you mean like the rest of them being worthless now you can fly a retriever (hell, you don't even need a mackinaw to make the rest of them worthless)?


if you fly retrievers you should know just how much their cap sucks and why you want a mack. hulks are still used for fleet mining. I don't really use the others as I mine solo like a lot of people which is why you're seeing retrievers everywhere. it used to be hulks everywhere because that was the solo ship of choice before.

they all have their roles though, even if a BS size tank isn't that useful on a barge as mining lowsec solo mostly isn't worth the effort.

forums.  serious business.
Dave stark
#75 - 2013-03-03 20:28:49 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
if you fly retrievers you should know just how much their cap sucks and why you want a mack. hulks are still used for fleet mining. I don't really use the others as I mine solo like a lot of people which is why you're seeing retrievers everywhere. it used to be hulks everywhere because that was the solo ship of choice before.

they all have their roles though, even if a BS size tank isn't that useful on a barge as mining lowsec solo mostly isn't worth the effort.


cap is fine, they're perfectly cap stable without training any cap skills.
i'm well aware of what a hulk is for.

sure they all have roles, that doesn't make them balanced.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#76 - 2013-03-03 20:36:06 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
cap is fine, they're perfectly cap stable without training any cap skills.
i'm well aware of what a hulk is for.

sure they all have roles, that doesn't make them balanced.


i can't even warp gate to gate across some systems in one go with it, and therefore is too annoying for me to use. i guess it's fine if you want a cheap ship and you aren't moving much.

forums.  serious business.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#77 - 2013-03-03 20:38:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

And then Unifex stated one of those things the baltec1 of the game still can't understand:

Quote:
Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility. Essentially the “social value, or social equity” of a player group increases as you move from left to right (on the whiteboard), even though the size of that player group becomes much smaller in number. In other words, the 10,000 combined instigators and enablers become as equally valuable as the much larger lurking population. Unifex admitted that historically, CCP had not been good at balancing their efforts and servicing all groups.


That little bit of conversation was one of the most interesting things i've read in a while.

I bolded the important parts.


which is the essential point of the xn.ym article I wrote.


Glad to see Unifex is onboard


We both agree that CCP Unifex is talking about a relevant change in CCP's attitude towards players.

You think that cool "high xn.ym" guys should get more CCP love.

I think that the disregard for the uncool lurkers is costing EVE its future.

So the question is... if CCP is not pleasing the "cool guys" and is not pleasing the "uncool" guys, who are they pleasing? Lol

BTW, reading the whole thing a third time, I noticed CCP Seagull said that the metrics guys are to be implementing HUMAN measurement systems right now. I would love to be a fly on the wall when they produce the first data on that...
Dave stark
#78 - 2013-03-03 20:39:08 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
cap is fine, they're perfectly cap stable without training any cap skills.
i'm well aware of what a hulk is for.

sure they all have roles, that doesn't make them balanced.


i can't even warp gate to gate across some systems in one go with it, and therefore is too annoying for me to use. i guess it's fine if you want a cheap ship and you aren't moving much.


warping to a gate has nothing to do with mining barge balance...
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-03-03 20:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Dave Stark wrote:
warping to a gate has nothing to do with mining barge balance...


you said there was no reason for anyone to progress further than the retriever. i just gave you a reason.

the balancing part was merely buffing it so it couldn't besolo ganked by destroyers. this upset a lot of people as they were having a lot of fun with that. I know myself, sometimes i get sick of a game but then I find some cool undocumented feature that supports grief play, especially grief play toward cheats or people playing very defensively. like the booster hunting thing in MW2 was amazing, I had so much fun with that so i get the upset but it's possible they just need to unsub for a while if the game is boring them, rather than complaining.

should send a message, you know?

and there's a lot of frikkin' complaining on here. just seems like the same old slogans being parroted about.

forums.  serious business.
Dave stark
#80 - 2013-03-03 20:53:10 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
warping to a gate has nothing to do with mining barge balance...


you said there was no reason for anyone to progress further than the retriever. i just gave you a reason.

the balancing part was merely buffing it so it couldn't be one-shotted by destroyers. this upset a lot of people as they were having a lot of fun with that. I know myself, sometimes i get sick of a game but then I find some cool undocumented feature that supports grief play, especially grief play toward cheats or people playing very defensively. like the booster hunting thing in MW2 was amazing, I had so much fun with that so i get the upset but it's possible they just need to unsub for a while if the game is boring them, rather than complaining.

should send a message, you know?

and there's a lot of frikkin' complaining on here. just seems like the same old slogans being parroted about.


warping to a gate isn't a reason. if i'm in a mining ship, i'm mining. so being able to warp to a gate is completely irrelevant. it also seems irrelevant to about 1/3 of high sec who appear to be using a retriever too. looking at the figures between just the mack and ret, there appears to be more ret users, than mack users in high sec for example.

as for the rest of that, it again, has nothing to do with the balance of mining ships.