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A disturbing trend
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Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2013-03-13 22:01:31 UTC
Nick Shale wrote:

...

Your Reclaiming failed, and it did so horribly after 9 generations the only seed you sowed was that of hate which inevitably grew into the Republic. You blame them for your failure and brand them untamed savages. God gave you this people to be stewarded into the light, it gave you time which you wasted, it showed you the path with St. Arzad but you condemned it. It gave you an emperor that showed you temperance but you call him weak and killed him. Now you see the fruit of your labor and call it wicked and dishonest, NO sir... I call Amarr dishonest for its lust of power, for its willingness to twist the word of God to accommodate that of men.


Pardon, but the reclamation of the Matari failed because of Jovian interference.

Some reclamations go faster than others ... The Ni-Kunni had the advantage of being clearly primitive when first found, and we Khanid were already followers of the book, and made common cause with Amarr very very early.

The Ammatar Mandate is proof that reclamation of the Matari would have simply been a matter of time.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Audrial
Fly By Night Corporation
#102 - 2013-03-13 23:51:10 UTC
I choose life, whether in slavery or in freedom. Please consider that, those of you who think that slaves don't have a conscious will to live. I, once a slave, will choose life above all.

xxxxooooxxxxooooxxxx Audrial
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#103 - 2013-03-14 03:51:29 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
Nick Shale wrote:

...

Your Reclaiming failed, and it did so horribly after 9 generations the only seed you sowed was that of hate which inevitably grew into the Republic. You blame them for your failure and brand them untamed savages. God gave you this people to be stewarded into the light, it gave you time which you wasted, it showed you the path with St. Arzad but you condemned it. It gave you an emperor that showed you temperance but you call him weak and killed him. Now you see the fruit of your labor and call it wicked and dishonest, NO sir... I call Amarr dishonest for its lust of power, for its willingness to twist the word of God to accommodate that of men.


Pardon, but the reclamation of the Matari failed because of Jovian interference.

Some reclamations go faster than others ... The Ni-Kunni had the advantage of being clearly primitive when first found, and we Khanid were already followers of the book, and made common cause with Amarr very very early.

The Ammatar Mandate is proof that reclamation of the Matari would have simply been a matter of time.


Id say our rebellion is proof it would not have been.

We can see which one actually happened, eh?

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2013-03-14 05:14:37 UTC
The more recent discussion here is treading bit by bit further away from the original post's intent. Really, one could hold up any Matari that believes in the Amarrian faith as "proof" that The Reclaiming is succeeding slowly but surely. One could hold up any Matari that fights against slavery and the Empire as "proof" that The Reclaiming is failing. But the fact of the matter is the cluster is full of both of those two examples and in the end it is a rather pointless line of debate.
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2013-03-14 06:47:40 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:


Id say our rebellion is proof it would not have been.

We can see which one actually happened, eh?


Your rebellion is proof that the Jovians possess superior weapons to our own.

Nothing more.

We will proceed with reclamation regardless. We will have to use persuasion for now, and restrict force to when the current situation allows it, Insha'Allah.

Your own economic woes and disunity provide opportunity for advancement through missionary charity. We are in this for the long term, as always.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#106 - 2013-03-14 08:13:37 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:

Id say our rebellion is proof it would not have been.

We can see which one actually happened, eh?


We can see both happened, given that trying to rule one of them out would mean the other is some sort of a sociological anomaly. It's a dangerous line to thread for a republican like yourself, as a simple gestalt might make a question pop out by a random amarrian - what if the Republic is the anomaly and the Mandate is the proper status quo?

Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:
But the fact of the matter is the cluster is full of both of those two examples and in the end it is a rather pointless line of debate.


Much closer to truth, really. It's good to see some amarrian people still have cool heads around here.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#107 - 2013-03-14 10:08:37 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
Nick Shale wrote:

...

Your Reclaiming failed, and it did so horribly after 9 generations the only seed you sowed was that of hate which inevitably grew into the Republic. You blame them for your failure and brand them untamed savages. God gave you this people to be stewarded into the light, it gave you time which you wasted, it showed you the path with St. Arzad but you condemned it. It gave you an emperor that showed you temperance but you call him weak and killed him. Now you see the fruit of your labor and call it wicked and dishonest, NO sir... I call Amarr dishonest for its lust of power, for its willingness to twist the word of God to accommodate that of men.


Pardon, but the reclamation of the Matari failed because of Jovian interference.

Some reclamations go faster than others ... The Ni-Kunni had the advantage of being clearly primitive when first found, and we Khanid were already followers of the book, and made common cause with Amarr very very early.

The Ammatar Mandate is proof that reclamation of the Matari would have simply been a matter of time.


The Ammatar Mandate is hardly a proof of that, considering how opposite their reaction have been compared to the other tribes. And there is also the Nefantar so called plot to hide the Starkmanir tribe in the equation.

Also, are you calling "Jovian interference" the defensive actions they had to take when the Amarr decided to send them an invading fleet for political reasons ?

But yes, some Reclaimings go faster than others.
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2013-03-14 18:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Adel Khamez
Lyn Farel wrote:

The Ammatar Mandate is hardly a proof of that, considering how opposite their reaction have been compared to the other tribes. And there is also the Nefantar so called plot to hide the Starkmanir tribe in the equation.

Also, are you calling "Jovian interference" the defensive actions they had to take when the Amarr decided to send them an invading fleet for political reasons ?

But yes, some Reclaimings go faster than others.


There were some Ammatari that needed more forceful persuasion. This was unfortunate, but at least they were prevented from harming themselves via further sin.

And yes, Jovian interference in territories the Amarr righteously conquered have prevented us from saving many of the Minmatar from hell.

But we will persevere. It was good of the Republic to accept millions of hidden missionaries along with the billions of repatriated Minmatari the Empress released. Their work at peaceful alternate means of reclamation will continue.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#109 - 2013-03-14 18:28:20 UTC
Usually, you have to go to Muck Raker to learn about Jovian conspiracies.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#110 - 2013-03-14 18:42:56 UTC
Karmilla Strife wrote:
Usually, you have to go to Muck Raker to learn about Jovian conspiracies.


Incorrect; Jovians are a Caldari conspiracy.
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2013-03-14 19:28:29 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Karmilla Strife wrote:
Usually, you have to go to Muck Raker to learn about Jovian conspiracies.


Incorrect; Jovians are a Caldari conspiracy.


They exist.

Hopefully they will leave us alone, as we have acceded to their demands after they had beaten our fleet.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#112 - 2013-03-14 20:12:23 UTC
You're in luck. They are probably all dead.
Audrial
Fly By Night Corporation
#113 - 2013-03-14 21:18:22 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Karmilla Strife wrote:
Usually, you have to go to Muck Raker to learn about Jovian conspiracies.


Incorrect; Jovians are a Caldari conspiracy.


I've heard similar stories.

xxxxooooxxxxooooxxxx Audrial
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2013-03-15 04:13:16 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
You're in luck. They are probably all dead.


I pray that is so.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#115 - 2013-03-15 06:06:15 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
And yes, Jovian interference in territories the Amarr righteously conquered have prevented us from saving many of the Minmatar from hell.


Interesting, as there is no "hell" in the Orthodox Amarrian Faith... must be a Khanid thing, I guess.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Audrial
Fly By Night Corporation
#116 - 2013-03-15 10:51:08 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
You're in luck. They are probably all dead.


I pray that is so.


I wonder though, as I've heard stories of their technologies..... Ah, perhaps it is all a myth... But still, I'm not sure i would wish anything.

xxxxooooxxxxooooxxxx Audrial
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2013-03-15 22:17:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Adel Khamez
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Adel Khamez wrote:
And yes, Jovian interference in territories the Amarr righteously conquered have prevented us from saving many of the Minmatar from hell.


Interesting, as there is no "hell" in the Orthodox Amarrian Faith... must be a Khanid thing, I guess.


I apologize.

Sometimes I lapse into Dark Amarr heresy. Thank you for correcting me.

My attitude toward cloning is also a Khanid thing, I am afraid. Orthodox outright fear of this technology is somewhat puzzling to me, especially since the Empress has made it a cornerstone of her new Paladin elite ground troops.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#118 - 2013-03-19 11:03:44 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
Ava Starfire wrote:
The rumors of "shunned people" are over-emphasized, I think. It does not happen often.

However, it is still a lamentable thing that it happens at all.


There still should be around here a topic in which a good number of Minmatarr say "Never trust a Nefantar" because of their faith. So I wish your words to be true, but I'm not so sure.

But I do agree with your general message, life is undoubtedly one of the pillars of everything worthwhile. And taking life away... not something to do lightly.


The exact wording is "Never trust an Ammatar" and there is a huge difference between those two sayings....though I think this subject is not really related to the original post.

As for original post, Synthetic Cultist has said all that is needed to be said:

Synthetic Cultist wrote:
It is Written: Where There is Life, There is Hope.


We will free them all.
Bronnwynn
Gradient
Electus Matari
#119 - 2013-03-21 18:11:27 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Lunacy and racist claptrap.


I'm pretty sure we can all see quite clearly who's displayed the most racist, violent, and out of touch with reality point of view thus far in this thread.

Hint.

FInd the closest mirror.

PS. Anytime you feel like discussing your opinion of myself and my people face to face, you need but ask.


I hear there's a nice mirror in capsuleer's quarters standard...

Anyways. I agree entirely with your points, Ava. By choosing for one who is still enslaved, you are doing the exact same thing as the Amarr - they have no freedom to make decisions on their life's path while enslaved. They have no freedom to make decisions if they are dead.

The only situation in which it is acceptable to kill enslaved people is when it is direct defense of yourself and your crew, or in the defense of other free people. Even then, it is regrettable - and I have done everything I can to resist that. It's cost me some hundred million ISK to refit Glaive, but it has extensive upgrades to life support and can take the full crew of any battle-cruiser or smaller ship that may be captured. I've yet to use it to the fullest, but I have run across instances where a capsuleer pilot will eject, or a standard naval vessel will surrender, instead of face futile destruction.

Kill only when necessary - and if it is, do it as skillfully, quickly, and cleanly as possible.