Intergalactic Summit

Mr Ixiris

I think what Mr Tuulinen is trying to say, Gallante is a democracy, its a sleeping giant, even with the proxy war, and border skirmishes, its of no concearn to the ordinary Gallante citicen, they dont care for war, or the political issues... its the flaw of democracy, but... as iwe mentioned earlier in this thread, that a certain Titan would commit genocide upon the population on Caldari Prime, im fairly certain, all restraints be loosened and there be full political and polpular support for going to war... then we are not talking about a bear mortally wounding itself on the hunter, then we are talking about a very angry democracy that have the will, the backing and moral aspects for all out war... lets hope it wont get to this and it can be solved peacefully

Ms. Vero, do forgive me. I didn't mean to question your loyalty, only your judgement.


Really? So rewarding them for their aggression with exactly what they want doesn't seem a bit like appeasement? "Please please we will give you what you want just don't hurt us any more." Pathetic.


You do seem to be preoccupied with the State perspective Ms. Vero. One can only wonder why.

Perhaps instead of wondering you might try asking, you ingrate. I don't know what you're looking to accomplish by blatantly quoting me out of context in this discussion. Not to mention throwing up insulting straw men to misrepresent my position. The fact that you're apparently unable to see the enormous strategic benefit of the withdrawal of the Caldari fleet from Luminaire, in addition to the visceral risk its continued presence poses to the lives of millions of Federal Citizens says enough to me about your judgment that I find myself nonplussed by your assessment of mine.

By all means, however, please share with the Summit what demands for concessions you see as appropriate for the recognition of Caldari sovereignty over Luminaire VII? Exactly what leverage do you seem to think the Federation has to extract such concessions? Perhaps if you payed a bit more attention to the "State perspective" yourself you'd understand that the Caldari see themselves as having the far superior negotiating position. Bluster on your part is hardly going to impact that perception.

Within the State the first thing each Caldari Citizen learns in the use of a rifle, a handgun and how to effectively use them in a large war effort, should the need arise, a war machine can and will be mobilized in the State far quicker then the Federation war machine.

The issue that arises is as stated by Pieter Tuulinen, the Federation citizens that will sign up for war will not have had the dedicated training for the same length and period of time a Caldari Navy and Army soldier has gone though, yes the soldiers of the Federation will have gone through this, but the fact remains, every State citizen is a a trained combatant, a long protracted war would be matched fairly evenly, even with the Federations superiority in numbers, the Caldari people will fight each with the same will and same strength of arms until the last man and women.

The Gallente Federation parliament has always and will always meddle in affairs of the Caldari State because they see it as their right, the Caldari as we all know used to be part of the Federation, a situation that put the Caldari in the bind where, no matter how much the Feds value peace, freedom and peoples right to choose their own way, the second it interferes with the Feds view of the right way to go about peace and freedom they meddle. They have been meddling with the Minmatar the same way.

This post may seem antagonistic but for how ever much both sides want peace, the States inability to forgot the Gallente's interference that caused us to abandon our home world in order for us to have the freedom and peace we wished to have have would it not have been for the Federation meddling of Caldari affairs. An the Gallente idea that they are always the superior in moral choice and integrity will mean they are never going to trust that a State that they see as a mere child, can function without the 'loving' care of Federation laws and rules.

I will say this though, if it ever comes to the point of war without alternative, I will stand by my Caldari brethren with all the strength, will and force I can muster at my disposal.

Statements from Federal politicians have made it abundantly clear that we cannot afford to forego our prosecution of the war in Black Rise at the cost of addressing Internal Security issues, Miss Vero. We MUST make it abundantly clear that any military push against the Caldari Navy would lbe utterly ruinous for the Federation - so that we can have the time and space to resolve issues at home. This is not chest-beating, it is simple Realpolitik.

On the other hand, if you're willing to extend an Olive Branch, I am more than willing to reach half-way to accept it. What do you have in mind?

Ms. Vero if you want to play at politics in the Federation get ready to sling a little mud.

Now back to it. One would like to see such vitriol directed at the State, but too each their own. As to why? When I see someone promote a policy I believe contrary to the wellbeing of the Federation I oppose it.


An insightful observation with which I couldn't agree more. Any "olive branch" we may offer will only be met with more demands. The only peace they seek is the one we make.

We are not forcing anyone to do anything, we are simply attempting to see that those who choose to resist oppression have the tools to do so effectively.

I think your expression of concern for the Federal citizens of Luminaire VII rings a bit hollow. I know how you and your ilk would like to frame the “peace”. Forgive me if I don’t share your vision.

So now you expect people born and raised in a place to simply submit to their homes being occupation by a foreign power? One wonders if you hold yourselves to the same standard . One wishes you had taken your own advice.

I'll refer you to my original post in this topic. That is my proposal. It relates specifically to the resolution of the question of Caldari Prime. As far as the further war in Black Rise and other Regions, that can be resolved another day. Or not.

My dear Simon. Well thank you at least for not calling it "Home". Yes I want peace. I hope you at least know that. But an honorable peace Simon, honorable. What your kin seem to want is something entirely different. Please! Both sides must take responsibility for the war.


As you asked Ms. Vero here are my views. They are based, yes believe it or not, on a Caldari purposal that I considered honorable. What I purpose borrows heavily from Ms. Katrina Oniseki's original suggestion.

1.) The adoption of a formal cease fire between the Gallente Federation and the Caldari State.

2.) The adoption of a formal peace treaty between the Gallente Federation and the Caldari State.

2.) The transfer of "total sovereignty and governance", related to Caldari Prime to the Caldari State by the Gallente Federation.

3.) The removal of all State military forces from the Luminaire system.

4.) The establishment of a corporate force under the direct authority of the Chief Executive Panel to provide security for Caldari Prime. This task force will not be a division of the Caldari Navy. This force will use standard Caldari Customs vessels, and will operate only to ensure the immediate orbital space around Caldari Prime, and will defer to Federal jurisdiction outside the maximum orbital altitude of 60,000km.

5.) The Caldari State will allow a reasonable time for Federal citizens to evacuate Caldari Prime. The Caldari State will bear the cost of any reasonable relocation and compensate those who leave "fair market value" for lost or abandoned property. Federal citizens wishing to remain on Caldari Prime will thereafter be considered State citizens and will be afforded the same rights and responsibilities of an other State citizen.

6.) The Caldari State will allow for the establishment and maintenance of appropriate and respectful cemeteries on Caldari Prime for Federal service personnel killed during latest hostilities.

7a.) The Low-Security regions of Placid, Essence, and Verge Vendor will fall under the sovereignty and governance of the Gallente Federation, without 'Caldari Occupation'. All Caldari corporations operating in these systems will be forced to recognize Gallente law and regulation.

7b.) The Low-Security systems of Black Rise and The Citadel will fall under the sovereignty and governance of the Caldari State, without 'Gallente Occupation'. All Gallente corporations and citizens operating/living in those regions will submit to the authority of the Caldari State or face deportation.

Of course I know that James, and I believe the following terms outlined to be both honorable and reasonable now and as when they were originally proposed by Oniseki-hanni. However, I've yet to truly hear any demands that adhere to your previous line of thinking.