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Crime & Punishment

 
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CCP: To Catch an Awoxer, where do we draw the line?

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Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#1 - 2013-03-02 04:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tom Gerard
The amount of damage a spy can inflict is disproportional to the amount of defense offered. No alliance in EVE is immune to this threat, as a matter of fact the poster child for spying "Awox" is a verb to even the newest players of EVE learn.

Awoxing is basically the act of placing a member within a hostile alliance and betraying that alliance to tackle and cyno hell down upon your unsuspecting alliance mates. This term originates from an actual player named "Awox"

So what the hell do we do about it?

In EVE our toolbox is empty, so our real power comes from "outside" and this right here folks is where the line is crossed.

+ Making friends via 3rd party activities (Guilds, clans, etc)
+ Using facebook information to present yourself as a former classmate. (Dale from the Latin Club)
+ Selling yourself as a potential business partner who could land you a big sale! (Toyota Dealership in Detroit Michican)
+ Setting up a meet IRL (2012 EVE Vegas)

All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".


So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.

"Golly Mr. Gerard, you sure have given us a lot to think about."

But wait there's more!

I have been given the dubious honor of revealing a awoxer! =) This bit of information may not be relevant to most of you but should be a *popcorn* event for those who are.

Kaylee Jakuard the "Industry Captain" of Imperial Guardians, and member of the Tribal Band alliance, is actually an informant for the alliance Black Legion.

Tribal Band Diplo: http://pastebin.com/K7kBiyPs

Now with 100% less Troll.
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#2 - 2013-03-02 04:58:20 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
The amount of damage a spy can inflict is disproportional to the amount of defense offered. No alliance in EVE is immune to this threat, as a matter of fact the poster child for spying "Awox" is a verb to even the newest players of EVE learn.

Awoxing is basically the act of placing a member within a hostile alliance and betraying that alliance to tackle and cyno hell down upon your unsuspecting alliance mates. This term originates from an actual player named "Awox"

So what the hell do we do about it?

In EVE our toolbox is empty, so our real power comes from "outside" and this right here folks is where the line is crossed.

+ Making friends via 3rd party activities (Guilds, clans, etc)
+ Using facebook information to present yourself as a former classmate. (Dale from the Latin Club)
+ Selling yourself as a potential business partner who could land you a big sale! (Toyota Dealership in Detroit Michican)
+ Setting up a meet IRL (2012 EVE Vegas)

All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".


So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.

"Golly Mr. Gerard, you sure have given us a lot to think about."

But wait there's more!

I have been given the dubious honor of revealing a awoxer! =) This bit of information may not be relevant to most of you but should be a *popcorn* event for those who are.

Kaylee Jakuard the "Industry Captain" of Imperial Guardians, and member of the Tribal Band alliance, is actually an informant for the alliance Black Legion.


Theyre called api sheets. You're welcome.

Also if you must, the issue you brought up seemed to be about cynoing in hot drops, which is the ever-cried of hot drop issue. (also known as instant teleportation of extremely numerous ships past any defenses to a particular target). Which, is actually a fun part of eve.

Api sheets... use them
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-03-02 05:03:48 UTC
API is hopeful thinking. Purchase a new character, play the game for a few months with it, insert into unsuspecting corp. API defeated.

Don't ban me, bro!
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#4 - 2013-03-02 05:10:08 UTC
That was a lot of words for calling out someone as an awoxer without any links as evidence.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-03-02 05:14:59 UTC
If you have a small fleet of very expensive ships, you're opening yourself up for a awoxing hotdrop. Small fleets should be relatively inexpensive to fly and replace. The larger the fleet, the more expensive ships you're ok with flying.

There's always a solution to EVERY problem. You may not like the available solutions, but they're available.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Naes Mlahrend
Devil's Horsemen
#6 - 2013-03-02 05:17:17 UTC
Yay, we're starting a rumor!
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-02 05:32:46 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
API is hopeful thinking. Purchase a new character, play the game for a few months with it, insert into unsuspecting corp. API defeated.

Indeed the API is a joke really - sure it might catch out the really lazy or not so bright ones, but no competent corp thief / awoxer / spy that knows what they're doing would get caught out by an API.

Alternate accounts funded by plex and the character bazaar give an easy way to gain any character skill set needed for whatever plan they have. You can lower the risk of it by not recruiting any character that's been purchased, but if someone is determined and patient enough they'll manage it regardless.
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#8 - 2013-03-02 05:34:39 UTC
Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.

What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.

OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#9 - 2013-03-02 05:38:49 UTC
No
bufnitza calatoare
#10 - 2013-03-02 06:26:47 UTC
Iminent Penance wrote:
Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.

What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.

OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence



would never work with me. if they wanna travel to nz then bully for them.

if they do live in nz and with the travel about 700-900km even more bully for them.
Silvara Nocturn
Nocturn Industries
#11 - 2013-03-02 06:45:14 UTC
What tools do you require? I can't think of any single thing that could stop a competent spy.
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#12 - 2013-03-02 06:52:49 UTC
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:
Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.

What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.

OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence



would never work with me. if they wanna travel to nz then bully for them.

if they do live in nz and with the travel about 700-900km even more bully for them.


I would travel to half moon bay if it meant sweet sweet tears. That means both the cook and the foveaux straits.

Onto the topic at hand

Awoxing is pretty simple to minimize, nothing will stop someone who is completely psyops grade determined to get you awoxed though (see BOB). basics are starting an ingame convo with them, using eve voice with them, check their employment history, ask for a temp full api key - and then actually look at it (seriously guys), then as long as you don't have any suspicions from that you can go ahead and invite them into a holding corporation or secondary corporation if you do not run an alliance. The candidate should be within that holding/secondary for about three months or so then bring them into a main corporation but don't dish out any roles. Any reimbursement program you run should require them to post a killmail to claim back and also minimize what is available to be reimbursed (such as only reimburse in war time, only reimburse set ships, only T1 meta 1 is available for reimbursement, etc, etc). Note, as I typed, a determined individual will be able to get through any gauntlet you throw - the key thing to do is decentralization so that you can minimize and recover from any awox.

You can ask for permanent apis if you are paranoid
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#13 - 2013-03-02 06:56:46 UTC
Super spikinator wrote:
Awoxing is pretty simple to minimize, nothing will stop someone who is completely psyops grade determined to get you awoxed though (see BOB). basics are starting an ingame convo with them, using eve voice with them, check their employment history, ask for a temp full api key - and then actually look at it (seriously guys), then as long as you don't have any suspicions from that you can go ahead and invite them into a holding corporation or secondary corporation if you do not run an alliance. The candidate should be within that holding/secondary for about three months or so then bring them into a main corporation but don't dish out any roles. Any reimbursement program you run should require them to post a killmail to claim back and also minimize what is available to be reimbursed (such as only reimburse in war time, only reimburse set ships, only T1 meta 1 is available for reimbursement, etc, etc). Note, as I typed, a determined individual will be able to get through any gauntlet you throw - the key thing to do is decentralization so that you can minimize and recover from any awox.

You can ask for permanent apis if you are paranoid

I bet someone read this and went "challenge accepted".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
bufnitza calatoare
#14 - 2013-03-02 07:09:36 UTC
Super spikinator wrote:
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:
Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.

What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.

OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence



would never work with me. if they wanna travel to nz then bully for them.

if they do live in nz and with the travel about 700-900km even more bully for them.


I would travel to half moon bay if it meant sweet sweet tears. That means both the cook and the foveaux straits.

Onto the topic at hand

Awoxing is pretty simple to minimize, nothing will stop someone who is completely psyops grade determined to get you awoxed though (see BOB). basics are starting an ingame convo with them, using eve voice with them, check their employment history, ask for a temp full api key - and then actually look at it (seriously guys), then as long as you don't have any suspicions from that you can go ahead and invite them into a holding corporation or secondary corporation if you do not run an alliance. The candidate should be within that holding/secondary for about three months or so then bring them into a main corporation but don't dish out any roles. Any reimbursement program you run should require them to post a killmail to claim back and also minimize what is available to be reimbursed (such as only reimburse in war time, only reimburse set ships, only T1 meta 1 is available for reimbursement, etc, etc). Note, as I typed, a determined individual will be able to get through any gauntlet you throw - the key thing to do is decentralization so that you can minimize and recover from any awox.

You can ask for permanent apis if you are paranoid



lol funny for the travelling ,

another thing one could ask for is... a screen shot of the channels on has access to.. not that it would help overly.

for me signs of not beign on comms.. acting suspects IE logged in for hours and not doing anything etc.

I my self was put on the awoxers list after a dumbass nullbear decided that I was trouble.. they tried to threaten me to get booted out. told them to watch out for karma... 3 months later a awoxer infiltrated them, and they got booted from alliance.. karma I love you :P
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#15 - 2013-03-02 07:12:45 UTC
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
I my self was put on the awoxers list after a dumbass nullbear decided that I was trouble.. they tried to threaten me to get booted out. told them to watch out for karma... 3 months later a awoxer infiltrated them, and they got booted from alliance.. karma I love you :P

Yeah.

That awoxer was actually your alt, wasn't it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-03-02 07:15:03 UTC
I recommend going on a witch hunt and don't stop until your organization collapses under the internal strife.

Baring that, I suppose you could do what most do... always operate as if a spy is actively listening to you and aside from that, don't let it bother you. It's eve, your going to have these problems.

API sheet can help, but any spy worth his ilk will probably be using a dedicated account.
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#17 - 2013-03-02 07:24:04 UTC
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:
Demand their physical address and have them meet you in person before joining.

What could possibly go wrong, and itl fix this! You see exactly who they are.

OOOOh or demand a keylogger. Another brilliant, easy solution to solve everything allowed in eve with NO consequence



would never work with me. if they wanna travel to nz then bully for them.

if they do live in nz and with the travel about 700-900km even more bully for them.


"them meet you in person" not "go find them yourself" why the hell would YOU travel to THEM? -.-
bufnitza calatoare
#18 - 2013-03-02 08:22:26 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
I my self was put on the awoxers list after a dumbass nullbear decided that I was trouble.. they tried to threaten me to get booted out. told them to watch out for karma... 3 months later a awoxer infiltrated them, and they got booted from alliance.. karma I love you :P

Yeah.

That awoxer was actually your alt, wasn't it.



I gave serious consideration to doing that but decided.. not to play the QQ game :) wasn't worth the isk to buy a new char etc.
Whitehound
#19 - 2013-03-02 08:29:03 UTC
Posting in a stealth "Black Legion" recruitment thread.

"+1" to whoever had the idea to hire Tom for their advertisement.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#20 - 2013-03-02 11:12:37 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
The amount of damage a spy can inflict is disproportional to the amount of defense offered. No alliance in EVE is immune to this threat, as a matter of fact the poster child for spying "Awox" is a verb to even the newest players of EVE learn.

Awoxing is basically the act of placing a member within a hostile alliance and betraying that alliance to tackle and cyno hell down upon your unsuspecting alliance mates. This term originates from an actual player named "Awox"

So what the hell do we do about it?

In EVE our toolbox is empty, so our real power comes from "outside" and this right here folks is where the line is crossed.

+ Making friends via 3rd party activities (Guilds, clans, etc)
+ Using facebook information to present yourself as a former classmate. (Dale from the Latin Club)
+ Selling yourself as a potential business partner who could land you a big sale! (Toyota Dealership in Detroit Michican)
+ Setting up a meet IRL (2012 EVE Vegas)

All of these out-of-game tools can be used and have been used to find out who doesn't belong. Most of them are borderline or cross the line to "Creepy".


So CCP please grant us the tools required to stop spies.

"Golly Mr. Gerard, you sure have given us a lot to think about."

But wait there's more!

I have been given the dubious honor of revealing a awoxer! =) This bit of information may not be relevant to most of you but should be a *popcorn* event for those who are.

Kaylee Jakuard the "Industry Captain" of Imperial Guardians, and member of the Tribal Band alliance, is actually an informant for the alliance Black Legion.


Simple solution, don't let anyone in your corp unless you know them in real life. This way if they awox you, you can just go over to their house and kick their ass :)
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