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Slowcats - are they worth it?
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ISquishWorms
#61 - 2013-03-01 11:34:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Need a new naming system.
^^

Why cats?



Because they purr

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2013-03-01 13:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nex apparatu5
handige harrie wrote:
Cavalira wrote:
This is a horrible thread.

Dropping 150 carriers worth a total of ~200b isk. It is only fair that a scrub fleet of 300 ships worth a total of 150b isk cannot beat the 200b isk fleet.
The Slowcat fleet may be tough to take down, but the impact of losing a 100man carrier fleet is devastating. Slowcats are slow enough to be welped all in one big go, if not used with care.


because using ISK as a manner to balance ships is the proper thing to do, imiright?



Cost is how everything in eve, and pretty much every game ever, is balanced, hth
Anthar Thebess
#63 - 2013-03-01 14:30:56 UTC
I'm not saying carriers are bad, they grate.
I'm talking about the slowcat concept.
For me it is breaking game mechanics - because after all capital fleet able to lock, and kill a frigate every second.

Giving ability to control ~1000 sentry drones to a single ship - do only i see a bit of nonsense here?
Why the need of bandwidth , drone bay if you can do something like this.

I think removing the ability to give assist on drones would be interesting solution.

Or maybe limit this by additional skill?
10 drones assisting / lvl

Just remember that the biggest slowcat time is about to come - as the shield slowcat will have much bigger dps on sentry drones than typical armour carrier.

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Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#64 - 2013-03-01 14:43:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Why cats?


Because this is the internet.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-03-01 14:55:41 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
Cavalira wrote:
This is a horrible thread.

Dropping 150 carriers worth a total of ~200b isk. It is only fair that a scrub fleet of 300 ships worth a total of 150b isk cannot beat the 200b isk fleet.
The Slowcat fleet may be tough to take down, but the impact of losing a 100man carrier fleet is devastating. Slowcats are slow enough to be welped all in one big go, if not used with care.


because using ISK as a manner to balance ships is the proper thing to do, imiright?



Cost is how everything in eve, and pretty much every game ever, is balanced, hth

just bought me Vindicator with some T2 rigs for 1.7 billions.

I guess i will fit it with few guns and go kill everyone on Dodixie undock. Because i'm invulnerable with it.

Well. at least some scrub Maller/t3 or some another crap won't be able to kill it even if i don't put my reps on.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#66 - 2013-03-01 14:56:24 UTC
Ewar is also a good counter for this.. drop a bunch of scorpions with ECM bursts in the middle of those drones and they won't do anything anymore.

To stop a drone from attacking, you need to either jam the attack caller they are assisting, or the drones themselves, yes, carriers hae immense Sensor strength, but it's not the carriers you need to jam, all you need to do is jam those drones ( yes they can be jammed ). A bunch of ECM burst scorps in a blob of sentrycarriers will stop those sentries from shooting.

Then as suggested, bring in a pile of dessies and begin sniping them. And to make sure you do it right, T1 fitted dessies, and offgrid some carriers with spares.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
Anthar Thebess
#67 - 2013-03-01 14:59:20 UTC
Xearal wrote:
Ewar is also a good counter for this.. drop a bunch of scorpions with ECM bursts in the middle of those drones and they won't do anything anymore.

To stop a drone from attacking, you need to either jam the attack caller they are assisting, or the drones themselves, yes, carriers hae immense Sensor strength, but it's not the carriers you need to jam, all you need to do is jam those drones ( yes they can be jammed ). A bunch of ECM burst scorps in a blob of sentrycarriers will stop those sentries from shooting.

Then as suggested, bring in a pile of dessies and begin sniping them. And to make sure you do it right, T1 fitted dessies, and offgrid some carriers with spares.


After the burst you will be locked under 1s and receive about 120-150k alpha strike.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

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Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2013-03-02 02:08:20 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Will CCP find solution for this - or do you see one?

What counters have you tried so far?
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#69 - 2013-03-02 05:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Iminent Penance
Why is this an issue? Use 150 tornadoes and have a 1.5mil ehp volley every 10 seconds and at 1/25th the cost of the carrier blob. Theyd win.

Blob ravens, blob ibises if you want, get enough they'll win. That's how eve is. (I personally use destroyer alts in hisec, for less than 100mil you can have 10,000+ dps to melt other ships for lols)
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#70 - 2013-03-02 05:24:00 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
Cavalira wrote:
This is a horrible thread.

Dropping 150 carriers worth a total of ~200b isk. It is only fair that a scrub fleet of 300 ships worth a total of 150b isk cannot beat the 200b isk fleet.
The Slowcat fleet may be tough to take down, but the impact of losing a 100man carrier fleet is devastating. Slowcats are slow enough to be welped all in one big go, if not used with care.


because using ISK as a manner to balance ships is the proper thing to do, imiright?



Cost is how everything in eve, and pretty much every game ever, is balanced, hth


Titans die to regular cap fleets, youtube it! Cost wise they should have a 15x advantage, but they don't win.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#71 - 2013-03-02 07:04:04 UTC
Iminent Penance wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
Cavalira wrote:
This is a horrible thread.

Dropping 150 carriers worth a total of ~200b isk. It is only fair that a scrub fleet of 300 ships worth a total of 150b isk cannot beat the 200b isk fleet.
The Slowcat fleet may be tough to take down, but the impact of losing a 100man carrier fleet is devastating. Slowcats are slow enough to be welped all in one big go, if not used with care.


because using ISK as a manner to balance ships is the proper thing to do, imiright?



Cost is how everything in eve, and pretty much every game ever, is balanced, hth


Titans die to regular cap fleets, youtube it! Cost wise they should have a 15x advantage, but they don't win.

Advantage doesn't scale as fast as cost does, and doesn't for all the other ships either.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#72 - 2013-03-02 07:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Iminent Penance
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
Cavalira wrote:
This is a horrible thread.

Dropping 150 carriers worth a total of ~200b isk. It is only fair that a scrub fleet of 300 ships worth a total of 150b isk cannot beat the 200b isk fleet.
The Slowcat fleet may be tough to take down, but the impact of losing a 100man carrier fleet is devastating. Slowcats are slow enough to be welped all in one big go, if not used with care.


because using ISK as a manner to balance ships is the proper thing to do, imiright?



Cost is how everything in eve, and pretty much every game ever, is balanced, hth


Titans die to regular cap fleets, youtube it! Cost wise they should have a 15x advantage, but they don't win.

Advantage doesn't scale as fast as cost does, and doesn't for all the other ships either.


Exactly. Eve is pretty balanced with counters to... well.. mostly everything, crying because one thing blobbed does a lot of damage is silly though. If I aim 10,000 pistols at a building, i guarantee the damage they do after a single round from each will do a lot,

Cost only applies when you are on a budget.... which is why i said t3 bc blobs are much more cost efficient than slowcats (and in the same numbers can do much larger volley damage)
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-03-02 09:30:51 UTC
slowcats are strong because of the combination of several strengths.

nerfing drone assists would make slowcats weaker but it would also kill other fleet concepts (arbitrator/vexor fleets, Das Boot Dominix, ...) that rely on drone assists but are not overpowered as they lack some of the other ingredients (tank, drone bay, ...) that make slowcats so strong.

.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#74 - 2013-03-02 20:09:31 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Its probably worth pointing out that a low sig fleet (read; Arty Lokifleet) would find it fairly easy to counter slowcats, and have multiple times, the issue then becomes the 250 Drakes that they brought with them..


It depends. Sig tanking is an option but if the bouncers are dispersed well and in high numbers then this means a higher chance of hitting at an angle where transversal is way down.

Lokis are a good bet because of their typically high EHP buffer for an AHAC but it is still risky and by no means a definitive counter.

Like you said tho, the blob is the blob.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
LtTrog
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-03-15 04:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: LtTrog
can someone explain sentry range please. As I understand it thy are limited by drone control range which with max skill is 60km add 2 black eagles and that is 112km right? so how is hitting anything beyond that range possible?
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#76 - 2013-03-15 05:36:35 UTC
Im just waiting for CCP to get ideas about nerfing the carriers ability to field standard drones.... like they planned during the great super nerf

The rage will be legendary.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-03-15 05:42:54 UTC
LtTrog wrote:
can someone explain sentry range please. As I understand it thy are limited by drone control range which with max skill is 60km add 2 black eagles and that is 112km right? so how is hitting anything beyond that range possible?


Control range dictates how far away from your ship the drones can be while still allowing you to actually control them. Sentries don't actually move, so unless you get bumped 60km or warp away there is no issue here.

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-03-15 05:43:04 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Im just waiting for CCP to get ideas about nerfing the carriers ability to field standard drones.... like they planned during the great super nerf


(citation needed)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
LtTrog
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-03-15 06:29:01 UTC


Control range dictates how far away from your ship the drones can be while still allowing you to actually control them. Sentries don't actually move, so unless you get bumped 60km or warp away there is no issue here.[/quote]

a bit of googling helped me here apparently if you want to manually select targets they must be within your control range but they will auto attack to their full range. As slowcats assign their drones I assume this isnt a problem. If this is the case why do I often see drone links on a slowcat fit? are they just doing it wrong?
LtTrog
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-03-15 06:35:34 UTC
Ok now Im confused... ive just read this on eveolapida

Sentry

Sentry Drones are more specialized drones designed for sniping, taking up the same space as heavy drones and requiring the same bandwidth. While the other drones orbit their target at high speed, sentries sit where they are deployed from and fire at enemies from long range. They have a long optimal and falloff as well as more damage and durability, but they have very low tracking speed and are immobile once deployed. Because of this, Sentry drones are best used against large targets or from long ranges. A sentry drone cannot attack targets that are outside its owner's drone control range, even if they are within its own optimal range.


can any1 confirm which is actually true in game?