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Miner Ganking & New Player Ganking

Author
The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#1 - 2013-02-28 06:37:02 UTC  |  Edited by: The Reaper J
I have had a few discussions with GM's that clearly don't care much about the opinions of players, and the fact that they contradict their own rules.

Miner ganking is apparently part of the game mechanics. Now if miner ganking is allowed as part of the game mechanics, then new player and/or new account members are gankable as well, as it is part of the game mechanics.

GM Pyro told me that ganking new players is not permitted. That was a laugh, as that is a contradiction to the rule, and that new players have that extra layer of protection. That is a load of rubbish.

How the hell, can they tell if the new account is a new player, or a current/veteran player creating a new account? They cannot control that, therefore that rule is completely inaccurate.

You cannot say who are new players and who are veteran players creating new accounts. On top of that, ganking miners in hi sec is a bunch of bull****. CCP knows it. I personally have had a couple of friends refuse to continue playing and will not be renewing their subscriptions because of it, and because the losses of mining barges are too much.

CCP seriously need to review their rules regarding this, because if they support miner ganking, and allow it as part of the game mechanics, they have to allow new player ganking as part of the game mechanics as well. Its all the same thing. You cannot support ganking and not allow it with new player accounts. That is just a straight forward contradiction of your own rule.

On top of all this, people spend money on this game, therefore costing them money, if the rules are not amended, eventually CCP will lose players, all that will happen is have new accounts created by veteran players. Therefore the actual member count of CCP is not 300k but only a 3rd of that with the amount of alt accounts on eve. I have already spoken to a player that has 23 alternative accounts. Now if 10 000 players have many alt accounts, how many players/members does ccp actually have. Losing any of its current players/members is definitely not good business.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#2 - 2013-02-28 06:58:19 UTC
Quote:
How the hell, can they tell if the new account is a new player, or a current/veteran player creating a new account? They cannot control that, therefore that rule is completely inaccurate.


Because the way that newbies are ganked in starter systems (the only places where there is any protection) is can-baiting. A veteran player is not going to be can-baited in the starter system, nor is he likely to even be in the starter system, nor would he give a **** if his reaper explodes.

And they can control that, through bans.

Quote:
On top of all this, people spend money on this game, therefore costing them money, if the rules are not amended, eventually CCP will lose players, all that will happen is have new accounts created by veteran players. Therefore the actual member count of CCP is not 300k but only a 3rd of that with the amount of alt accounts on eve. I have already spoken to a player that has 23 alternative accounts. Now if 10 000 players have many alt accounts, how many players/members does ccp actually have. Losing any of its current players/members is definitely not good business.


EVE has been growing consistently since 2003, moreso than any other MMO can claim. No matter what the game mechanics are, some people will leave because they don't like them. EVE is a game that expects you to take responsibility for your own safety. If you aren't willing to do that then leave.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-28 07:12:45 UTC
So what is your feature or idea? This is not GD for ranting.
So I could expect this to be locked soon for ranting.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#4 - 2013-02-28 07:43:13 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So what is your feature or idea? This is not GD for ranting.
So I could expect this to be locked soon for ranting.


I am not ranting, i have stated in the statement they should make changes to the rules. Besides, i was also expecting the type of comment i got from Kahega Amielden. When anyone would say something another player does not like, then they would just say, leave. Its easy to say Eve, has been growing consistantly, seeing that most of the accounts of new accounts of current veteran players. Oh, and using the excuse about using cans to attrack them, is a lame excuse. Friends of veteran players can learn these things before they even join.

I was stating that CCP should consider looking into their rules about ganking miners and noobs. They say its game mechanics, to gank miners, then it should be game mechanics to gank noob accounts, even if its new accounts of veteran players or not. That's what i am saying. I am not ranting. Its called being equal to everyone in the game.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-28 08:02:21 UTC
A player is only a noob for somewhere in the realm of 30~45 days.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-02-28 08:08:28 UTC
The Reaper J wrote:
tears...


Why are you ganking noobs anyway? It does nothing but drive new players out of the game before they even get a taste for it.

On the argument it could be a veteran with a new account... If it were a vet, the income a newbie account would bring in would make the activity a pointless waste of time.

...

Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#7 - 2013-02-28 08:08:50 UTC
The Reaper J wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So what is your feature or idea? This is not GD for ranting.
So I could expect this to be locked soon for ranting.


I am not ranting, i have stated in the statement they should make changes to the rules. Besides, i was also expecting the type of comment i got from Kahega Amielden. When anyone would say something another player does not like, then they would just say, leave. Its easy to say Eve, has been growing consistantly, seeing that most of the accounts of new accounts of current veteran players. Oh, and using the excuse about using cans to attrack them, is a lame excuse. Friends of veteran players can learn these things before they even join.

I was stating that CCP should consider looking into their rules about ganking miners and noobs. They say its game mechanics, to gank miners, then it should be game mechanics to gank noob accounts, even if its new accounts of veteran players or not. That's what i am saying. I am not ranting. Its called being equal to everyone in the game.

It is called ranting because you are not suggesting any solution to your imaginary problem. New players are free to gank once they are outside of starter systems so each and every player equally (not)protected from ganking.
You might want to read this: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 before arguing about rules.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#8 - 2013-02-28 08:20:01 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
The Reaper J wrote:
tears...


Why are you ganking noobs anyway? It does nothing but drive new players out of the game before they even get a taste for it.

On the argument it could be a veteran with a new account... If it were a vet, the income a newbie account would bring in would make the activity a pointless waste of time.


I am not popping noobs. I am saying it should be allowed, seeing that they pop miners in hi sec, and that the losses are not worth playing further.

I did make a suggestion. CCP needs to reconsider the rules about ganking. Otherwise there is going to be hi sec chaos eventually, and they may as well change hi sec to low sec, and leave the noob systems as they are.
The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#9 - 2013-02-28 08:21:16 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
The Reaper J wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So what is your feature or idea? This is not GD for ranting.
So I could expect this to be locked soon for ranting.


I am not ranting, i have stated in the statement they should make changes to the rules. Besides, i was also expecting the type of comment i got from Kahega Amielden. When anyone would say something another player does not like, then they would just say, leave. Its easy to say Eve, has been growing consistantly, seeing that most of the accounts of new accounts of current veteran players. Oh, and using the excuse about using cans to attrack them, is a lame excuse. Friends of veteran players can learn these things before they even join.

I was stating that CCP should consider looking into their rules about ganking miners and noobs. They say its game mechanics, to gank miners, then it should be game mechanics to gank noob accounts, even if its new accounts of veteran players or not. That's what i am saying. I am not ranting. Its called being equal to everyone in the game.

It is called ranting because you are not suggesting any solution to your imaginary problem. New players are free to gank once they are outside of starter systems so each and every player equally (not)protected from ganking.
You might want to read this: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 before arguing about rules.


I would not call it an imaginary problem. You clearly are a null sec player and only enjoy pvp.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-02-28 08:31:51 UTC
NO

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#11 - 2013-02-28 09:42:04 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:

It is called ranting because you are not suggesting any solution to your imaginary problem. New players are free to gank once they are outside of starter systems so each and every player equally (not)protected from ganking.
You might want to read this: http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 before arguing about rules.

Quote:
Doing the same in the systems the Blood Stained Stars epic arc takes you through is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.



Note that part also.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#12 - 2013-02-28 09:43:44 UTC
Ganking newbies in newbie systems is bannable. Those systems are well known, list is short and nothing vague about it. Anybody tricked and ganked can petition it and if their claim has merits perpetrator will be punished.

What else do you need? CCP dev or GM watching every hisec pilot whole time and pushing magic buttons to prevent them from losing pixels?

Ganking miner is same sport as ganking freighters or shiny mission runners. If you are outside of newbie system you are fair game even if you are 1 week old character. And while blowing up newbies in their first failfitted ships is not honorable thing to do Eve is not about honor, it is about pissing in somebody's cheerios before he will **** in yours and then point and laugh at him.

Invalid signature format

The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#13 - 2013-02-28 09:52:56 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Ganking newbies in newbie systems is bannable. Those systems are well known, list is short and nothing vague about it. Anybody tricked and ganked can petition it and if their claim has merits perpetrator will be punished.

What else do you need? CCP dev or GM watching every hisec pilot whole time and pushing magic buttons to prevent them from losing pixels?

Ganking miner is same sport as ganking freighters or shiny mission runners. If you are outside of newbie system you are fair game even if you are 1 week old character. And while blowing up newbies in their first failfitted ships is not honorable thing to do Eve is not about honor, it is about pissing in somebody's cheerios before he will **** in yours and then point and laugh at him.


Cool. I think there are a few players about to **** off a lot of people, and gank a lot of expensive ships and freighters for the crap that's going on. Only problem is, the complaints will flood in eventually. Then what?
The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#14 - 2013-02-28 09:53:52 UTC
The Reaper J wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Ganking newbies in newbie systems is bannable. Those systems are well known, list is short and nothing vague about it. Anybody tricked and ganked can petition it and if their claim has merits perpetrator will be punished.

What else do you need? CCP dev or GM watching every hisec pilot whole time and pushing magic buttons to prevent them from losing pixels?

Ganking miner is same sport as ganking freighters or shiny mission runners. If you are outside of newbie system you are fair game even if you are 1 week old character. And while blowing up newbies in their first failfitted ships is not honorable thing to do Eve is not about honor, it is about pissing in somebody's cheerios before he will **** in yours and then point and laugh at him.


Cool. I think there are a few players about to **** off a lot of people, and gank a lot of expensive ships and freighters for the crap that's going on. Only problem is, the complaints will flood in eventually. Then what?


Another point, bearly anyone in this game knows what the word honorable means. So i don't expect them to be.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#15 - 2013-02-28 10:13:32 UTC
The Reaper J wrote:
Another point, bearly anyone in this game knows what the word honorable means. So i don't expect them to be.

"Honor" is meaningless in a game designed to be a virtual dystopia.

The Reaper J wrote:
Cool. I think there are a few players about to **** off a lot of people, and gank a lot of expensive ships and freighters for the crap that's going on. Only problem is, the complaints will flood in eventually. Then what?

They already do. Keep your eye on the "General Discussion," "Crime & Punishment," and "Warfare & Tactics" subforums. Such complaints crop up from time to time.

Unfortunately for them... precedent shows that CCP will do little to "help" them. The design of the game is such that everyone has the same tools, tactics, and resources available to them. If players choose to not use or adapt to those tools and tactics used against them that's not the fault of CCP... that's the fault of the players themselves.

Good examples of this would be events like "POSageddon," "Hulkageddon," "Goon Ice Interdiction," "Burn Jita," and "The New Order."

CCP did not directly intervene in any of these events. Sure, the Insurance nerf, mining barge rebalancing, and CRIMEWATCH did make things a wee bit more difficult and unprofitable for gankers to ply their trade... but the actual act of ganking and crime was never stopped nor discouraged OUTSIDE of newbie systems and the newbie mission arc.

What's so hard to understand about that?
The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#16 - 2013-02-28 10:20:02 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
The Reaper J wrote:
Another point, bearly anyone in this game knows what the word honorable means. So i don't expect them to be.

"Honor" is meaningless in a game designed to be a virtual dystopia.

The Reaper J wrote:
Cool. I think there are a few players about to **** off a lot of people, and gank a lot of expensive ships and freighters for the crap that's going on. Only problem is, the complaints will flood in eventually. Then what?

They already do. Keep your eye on the "General Discussion," "Crime & Punishment," and "Warfare & Tactics" subforums. Such complaints crop up from time to time.

Unfortunately for them... precedent shows that CCP will do little to "help" them. The design of the game is such that everyone has the same tools, tactics, and resources available to them. If players choose to not use or adapt to those tools and tactics used against them that's not the fault of CCP... that's the fault of the players themselves.

Good examples of this would be events like "POSageddon," "Hulkageddon," "Goon Ice Interdiction," "Burn Jita," and "The New Order."

CCP did not directly intervene in any of these events. Sure, the Insurance nerf, mining barge rebalancing, and CRIMEWATCH did make things a wee bit more difficult and unprofitable for gankers to ply their trade... but the actual act of ganking and crime was never stopped nor discouraged OUTSIDE of newbie systems and the newbie mission arc.

What's so hard to understand about that?


There was nothing hard to understand, but there is now going to be gate campers waiting for noobs o to come out of their systems to gank them. lol, thats going to be funny. and ccp cannot intervene, because if they do, they have to in everything else. lol
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#17 - 2013-02-28 10:25:57 UTC
The Reaper J wrote:
There was nothing hard to understand, but there is now going to be gate campers waiting for noobs o to come out of their systems to gank them. lol, thats going to be funny. and ccp cannot intervene, because if they do, they have to in everything else. lol

I'm pretty certain that the GMs have leeway in their application of the rules. Things are rarely as "black and white" as you're making them out to be.
The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#18 - 2013-02-28 10:31:21 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
The Reaper J wrote:
There was nothing hard to understand, but there is now going to be gate campers waiting for noobs o to come out of their systems to gank them. lol, thats going to be funny. and ccp cannot intervene, because if they do, they have to in everything else. lol

I'm pretty certain that the GMs have leeway in their application of the rules. Things are rarely as "black and white" as you're making them out to be.


I have no idea. For all we know, the New Order Logistics, could be some of the GM's on their personal accounts, or simply a bunch of fanatical, maniacal, crazy people that are bored, and have no brains worth 10 cents. I have no idea. All i am saying is, that eventually, there will be far more chaos in the game, and then there will be absolutely not point to a so called "hi sec". lol. I know of a few people already wanting to go camp gates, and wait for noobs to pop out, so they can gank them. lol.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#19 - 2013-02-28 10:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
The Reaper J wrote:
There was nothing hard to understand, but there is now going to be gate campers waiting for noobs o to come out of their systems to gank them. lol, thats going to be funny. and ccp cannot intervene, because if they do, they have to in everything else. lol

That rule was in place for quite a while. Gate camping new players is neither profitable nor fun so why waste own game time on such activity? Also that might lead to new players losing interest in game so you'll end up with less players to play with in a long run.
I understand that those "few people" cannot compete with anything that can fight back and thats why they want to fuel their superiority complex by killing inexperienced and helpless new players. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#20 - 2013-02-28 10:43:01 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
The Reaper J wrote:
There was nothing hard to understand, but there is now going to be gate campers waiting for noobs o to come out of their systems to gank them. lol, thats going to be funny. and ccp cannot intervene, because if they do, they have to in everything else. lol

That rule was in place for quite a while. Gate camping new players is neither profitable nor fun so why waste own game time on such activity? Also that might lead to new players losing interest in game so you'll end up with less players to play with in a long run.
I understand that those "few people" cannot compete with anything that can fight back and thats why they want to fuel their superiority complex by killing inexperienced and helpless new players. Correct me if i'm wrong.


Whats wrong with them doing it? They can gate camp if they want and kill noobs if they want to. It got nothing to do with being able to fight. Miners are unarmed miners, mining in a belt with not real actual defensive capabilities. Noobs are the same, so why not gate cam and kill noobs. If its fun for them, so what.
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