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Moving research to 0.0
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Yolanda Squatpump
Squatpump Corpse
#1 - 2013-02-27 16:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Yolanda Squatpump
Wanted to hear if anyone else has heard more of the rumour that research will be moved to 0.0 to buff 0.0

If so, where is this written about?

What form would it take?
- straight booting out - i.e., research requires systems security at or below losec?
- nerfing hisec research with time penalties or otherwise?

And, what would be the implication for research? I could imagine:
- hisec corps seeking shelter in 0.0 alliances to reignite their POSes in 0.0
- hisec corps loosing all their BPOs after being screwed by 0.0 alliances ("your safe with us mate")
- price spikes in BPCs
- bonanza of POS blow ups in 0.0
- extra income for 0.0 alliances renting moons to high sec researchers
- ......
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-02-27 17:29:27 UTC
Yolanda Squatpump wrote:
Wanted to hear if anyone else has heard more of the rumour that research will be moved to 0.0 to buff 0.0

If so, where is this written about?

What form would it take?
- straight booting out - i.e., research requires systems security at or below losec?
- nerfing hisec research with time penalties or otherwise?

And, what would be the implication for research? I could imagine:
- hisec corps seeking shelter in 0.0 alliances to reignite their POSes in 0.0
- hisec corps loosing all their BPOs after being screwed by 0.0 alliances ("your safe with us mate")
- price spikes in BPCs
- bonanza of POS blow ups in 0.0
- extra income for 0.0 alliances renting moons to high sec researchers
- ......

I know people have suggested it, but I would not support the removal of research to null. By all means buff null industry and nerf highsec industry, either by mineral requirement, time or cost, (or a combination,) but don't fully remove it from highsec.

Also, I am under the impression that modular POSs will be anchorable anywhere, not just on moons. There will be limitations to that, like proximity to other structures like gates, staions and other POSs as well as celestial objects like Belts.

Friends
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#3 - 2013-02-27 18:32:11 UTC
High technology should be researched and built in High sec.

90% of the materials for that to happen should come from low sec.

10% of the materials should come from low-sec.
Kathern Aurilen
#4 - 2013-02-28 00:42:38 UTC
CCP isn't going to wipe out one of the main reasons to have a POS in high sec.

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2013-02-28 04:33:21 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:

I know people have suggested it, but I would not support the removal of research to null. By all means buff null industry and nerf highsec industry, either by mineral requirement, time or cost, (or a combination,) but don't fully remove it from highsec.

Also, I am under the impression that modular POSs will be anchorable anywhere, not just on moons. There will be limitations to that, like proximity to other structures like gates, staions and other POSs as well as celestial objects like Belts.


Arbitrary cost for industry should be the same anywhere, as should time. Making ships magically cost more to build in high sec is not sand box, its theme park. Now, if they change it that all manufacturing null or high sec requires a PoS, that I'm fine with, as long as it's all area's of Sec, not a magical punish high sec mechanic.

I agree currently null has issues via the inverse of this.
Sigras
Conglomo
#6 - 2013-02-28 07:28:30 UTC
what if they made it a bonus of the sov system?

You cant just give a straight discount to manufacturing, but my thought was, what if you made a third "construction index" in the sov system. this would grow as a result of things being produced in the system through POSs or stations. Each level would allow you to put in an I-hub module in that would give you a 2%/5%/10%/20%/50% reduction to waste and production time for anything built in the system.

This means it would be significantly cheaper to build large items like ships out in 0.0 because you cannot research large items to perfect ME

I would also move supercapital construction to need level 5 of the construction index; this would simultaneously do two things:
1. It would force alliances to centralize their supercapital construction shipyards and tell everyone where manufacturing was going on.
2. It would be a significant blow for an alliance to lose their supercapital shipyards because they couldnt just plop down another one, it would take time to build that index back up as the construction index would reset if they lost the I-hub in that system.
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-02-28 08:46:21 UTC
Sigras wrote:
what if they made it a bonus of the sov system?

You cant just give a straight discount to manufacturing, but my thought was, what if you made a third "construction index" in the sov system. this would grow as a result of things being produced in the system through POSs or stations. Each level would allow you to put in an I-hub module in that would give you a 2%/5%/10%/20%/50% reduction to waste and production time for anything built in the system.

This means it would be significantly cheaper to build large items like ships out in 0.0 because you cannot research large items to perfect ME.

By adding a small amount to the time and material requirements in highsec and reducing them in low and null, you can give a favourable discount to null and low industry straight off the bat.

Increase refinement tax in empire space, based on security levels and you will quickly find more industry moving away from hubs as margins narrow.

Sigras wrote:
I would also move supercapital construction to need level 5 of the construction index; this would simultaneously do two things:
1. It would force alliances to centralize their supercapital construction shipyards and tell everyone where manufacturing was going on.
2. It would be a significant blow for an alliance to lose their supercapital shipyards because they couldnt just plop down another one, it would take time to build that index back up as the construction index would reset if they lost the I-hub in that system.

This would also make new capitals both more valuable and harder to procure, making life even harder for those without swathes of them already...
Not sure about this one.

Friends
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-03-01 04:50:59 UTC
Sigras wrote:
This means it would be significantly cheaper to build large items like ships out in 0.0 because you cannot research large items to perfect ME.



and given we have an established price people will buy at ccp then faces +1 isk faucet to 0.0. As I don't see 0.0 going cool I can make this cane 20 mil cheaper I will sell it at jita for that lower price. 0.0 got the moon goo....that is more than enough to keep the wallet fat. They can run reaction pos to work the moon goo. And the pi is better out there.



Also has the issue of new player vs old player. Ie. a 3-4 year empire dwelling indy should have his bp's in place already. Research moves, they have thier high me bpo's. A new player won't have that not paying out the nose. Joining 0.0 may not be an option to offset.

Only crews they like are say 15 mil jsut to say hi. The crews thay may join don't have a strong pve basis. That is they want combat pilots not station spinning indy's. You get this now with miner hating corps, ratters at least can refit/reshiip for pvp in no time.

Or they may not have the time do 0.0. I am in that boat. I liked it out there. But if I get 1.5 hours of eve just 3 nights a week its a busy eve week for me now. This was not in my opinion meeting corp/alliance time committment obligations ( i was missing or skipping roams and ops too often due to time constraint). So I left 0.0 before I had to be asked. I couldn't stand pve leeches when out there, it be hyporitical of me to be one lol.






Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-03-01 04:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Nevyn Auscent wrote:


Arbitrary cost for industry should be the same anywhere, as should time. Making ships magically cost more to build in high sec is not sand box, its theme park.


Using assembly lines in High security space could be much more expensive. Lore-wise there should be large taxes for it. It's only logical to have such a tradeoff between safety/proximity of markets and production price.
There is no magic in it either. Another addition could be having low-sec manufacturing price as low as in 0.0 while putting a tax on high-sec lines. It will be one more reason to be in low-sec.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-03-01 08:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:


Arbitrary cost for industry should be the same anywhere, as should time. Making ships magically cost more to build in high sec is not sand box, its theme park.


Using assembly lines in High security space could be much more expensive. Lore-wise there should be large taxes for it. It's only logical to have such a tradeoff between safety/proximity of markets and production price.
There is no magic in it either. Another addition could be having low-sec manufacturing price as low as in 0.0 while putting a tax on high-sec lines. It will be one more reason to be in low-sec.



low sec ops would involve jf's. Bit out of reach for newer indy's. the problem with populating low sec is not the rewards, they are there. Its what it takes to get those rewards to jita to sell.

Case in point is how 0.0 can work. I was in one corp and we bought a station egg. Bit of overkill given our time zone and it was dead most of the time but when that station egg got planted it had a veeeeerrrrrry large corp escort fleet until it a station was born. Escort the frieghters to the titan bridge for the freighter hopping, lets jsut say it was not escorted by a few frigates and cruisers. This is the stuff needed to make null sec gets its cash flow.

The same would be needed to keep low sec indy viable. Cheap labor, cheap parts and in the end its shot down and looted by a tusker roam. So you tack on escorts. If not paid they will leave (your basic wh model....they fight and die in pvp to keep the sleeper poo dropping, sleeper poo pays well). Want competent pvp pilots to counter the more skilled piewats, they don't work for peanuts (again look at wh's). Yay, you saved 200 mil in production costs. And you then spent 180 mil to protect it.

Also an isk faucet. if low/null are given all the cost cutting tax reduced/free building they want....when it hits jita its getting charge the worst rate empire would give.....-.01 isk lol.