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So capitals....
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Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#1 - 2011-10-13 04:12:45 UTC
I've been hearing lots of things about this coming update, and it has reignited my wish to someday be a capital pilot. Now, I just need to figure out what ships, race and what skills I will need. Great.

Say I was looking at training for a carrier, one of the shield ones (Nid IS shield tanked, isn't it? Shows how much I know Shocked )

What skills do I NEED to have 5'd, besides what it says under the prereqs tab? This carrier would eventually need to do it all, Triage, PvE, PvP, hauling, whatever.

Alternatively, if I wanted to fly a dread, assuming this winter update makes them more than just POS wrecking machines, what would you suggest? Again, I'm mostly shield trained, but for this kind of investment I would be sure to bring my armor skills up to scratch. What skills would I want to have? Which dread is the most versatile, if there is such a thing?


And finally, is it stupid to train the shield ships? Should I just go armor? Please post skills for these too if that is your suggestion. Finally, any and all comments on carriers/dreads/capitals/supercaps in general would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-10-13 05:33:24 UTC
Hey dood, i personally think carriers are THE best class of ship in EVE.

Sure their HPs are on the low side for a combat capital, but they make up for that with the sheer versatility you enjoy from them. The Nid is an armour tanked ship. It has 6 lows and 5 Mids.

Have you got Minmatar BS 5? If so (or are nearly there with it), it would be the way to go. If you have another racial BS skill at 5 already, it may be best to train for that races carrier.

Skills.... The Nid is a decent repping masheen. You need both your capacitor capacity skill and cap recharge skills @ 5.
Armour repair skill needs to be at 5 to unlock the cap RR.
The skills for T2 large shield and armour RR needs to be maxed out to unlock their capital derivatives.
Armour resist skills need to be at least 4, 5 is nice, but 4 is the minimum. Train them to 5 last.
I think you need Drone interfacing to 5 too, thats a prereq for the carrier skill.
Navigation... JDO needs to be at 5. JDC is one of the best skills in the game to have at 5, but 4 is the minimum. JDFC at 4 is fine.
Capital cap transfer modules would be needed on your ship too, so train them up to use T2 large.

other than that... i think the next best skill to have at 5 is the sentry drone interfacing. At 5 it unlocks T2 sentries: GREAT! for helping shoot POSs and for PVE.
Fighters 4 is good, Carrier 4 is good. L5 for both skills is not neccesary early on, but good to eventually get way down the track.
Capital ships 4 is a minimum, 5 is a bit overkill, but the extra agility in PVE'ing is very handy.

Dreads (the Nag in particular) requires a lot more training. Dreads are hella fun when ur shooting things, but that is a very rare thing these days. Not nearly as versatile as a carrier though. A carrier really is a jack-of-all-trades ship.

getting a carrier is a big, expensive step. if you have the isk and like the idea of being in a decent alliance, then go for it.

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Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#3 - 2011-10-13 08:23:57 UTC
Bear in mind that there are a TON of support skills for a carrier so as well as the ship you will need to train up the fighters, reppers and remote systems. In terms of "5'd", you will need to "5" all the pre-requisite skills, which include:

For Carrier:
- Spaceship Command V
- Advanced Spaceship command V
- Racial BS V
- Drones V
- Drone Interfacing V
- Warp Drive Operation V
- Science V

For Actually jumping around:
- Jump Drive Operation V (unlocks jump drive Calibration)

For Support:
- Mechanic V
- Hull Upgrades V
- Repair Systems V
- Remote Repair Systems V

Fighters:
- Leadership V (plus above drone skills)

For Triage:
- Sig Analysis V
- Logistics V
- Long Range Targetting V

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Usurpine
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-10-13 13:16:37 UTC
Check the thread about rebalancing capital ships or just wait until next patch changes to make decisions.
Aamrr
#5 - 2011-10-13 13:22:40 UTC
Last December, I purchased a second account and started a new character for the purpose of acquiring a carrier alt. Since then, she's been averaging just over 2700 SP/hour, and is nearing the end of her first remap. She currently has just over 21 million skill points.

Consider that I haven't even injected the drones skill yet, and have about a year remaining before she'll be ready to fly her new ship. If you're okay with that kind of timeline, then by all means start training for capitals. But do know that it is a very long road.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#6 - 2011-10-13 14:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Usurpine wrote:
Check the thread about rebalancing capital ships or just wait until next patch changes to make decisions.


There is only one change currently affecting 'normal' carriers and that is the fighter sig' res' nerf from 125 to 400, meaning they will not hit small ships well at all. Having said this the primary role of a carrier is triage and not DPS so I do not see this as a major issue.
Edit: Looks like the bandwidth nerf might not be going ahead after all.

The logoffski nerf is only for SC's and the drone bay nerf only affects Titans and SC's
Edit: I miss-read the blog. Logoffski change will affect all ships but larger ships will be more vulnerable.

There is a potential discussion regarding a Minny cap buff but it's all talk at the moment and nothing more.

TL;DR - 'Normal' Carriers will remain largely unchanged in the next patch tho' fighters will be nerfed a little.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Aamrr
#7 - 2011-10-13 15:12:44 UTC
Feedback from the patch change thread seems to indicate that the fighter change isn't going to make it to TQ. The feedback has been overwhelmingly negative. I think you can expect fighters to make it through the winter patch unscathed.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-10-13 16:30:24 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
The logoffski nerf is only for SC's


Actually it's a basic change to logoff mechanics and is not ship specific in any way - will affect super carriers, carriers, freighters, dreads, shuttles... alright maybe won't have much of an impact on shuttles P
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#9 - 2011-10-13 17:23:22 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
The logoffski nerf is only for SC's


Actually it's a basic change to logoff mechanics and is not ship specific in any way - will affect super carriers, carriers, freighters, dreads, shuttles... alright maybe won't have much of an impact on shuttles P




The amount it affects any given ship is directly proportional to it's size and signature size and inversely proportional to its sensor strength. Meaning that ships with huge EHP and sig and medium sensor strength (AKA supercaps) will be much more affected than other ships.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#10 - 2011-10-13 20:16:17 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
Last December, I purchased a second account and started a new character for the purpose of acquiring a carrier alt. Since then, she's been averaging just over 2700 SP/hour, and is nearing the end of her first remap. She currently has just over 21 million skill points.

Consider that I haven't even injected the drones skill yet, and have about a year remaining before she'll be ready to fly her new ship. If you're okay with that kind of timeline, then by all means start training for capitals. But do know that it is a very long road.


Wow, that's longer-term than I had first thought. And you were training strictly carrier/support skills the entire time?
I'm sure I could use all the training time to make more ISK to afford nicer fittings and more of them, but wow, almost 2 years.
Thanks for this advice, and everyone else's too.
Aamrr
#11 - 2011-10-13 20:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
I'll admit, it hasn't been strictly carrier skills. There was quite a while where I wasn't sure precisely what to do with her, so I just tried to be efficient with my SP/hr. A lot of the stuff is useful, but not directly related (ewar skills, for example).

If you're interested, you can look at the character. She's posted publicly on eveboard, here.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#12 - 2011-10-13 21:16:56 UTC
Ah okay, that makes it a little less scary, thanks Big smile
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#13 - 2011-10-14 08:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Wacktopia wrote:
TL;DR - 'Normal' Carriers will remain largely unchanged in the next patch tho' fighters will be nerfed a little.


"A little" ?

Do keep in mind that the nerf to fighters makes them mostly unable to hit anything smaller than another cap ship. Their new orbit velocity is fast enough that they can't even hit most battleships. Not saying I disagree with this completely, since cap ships were never intended to solo entire battleship gangs, but it's a pretty big nerf.

thhief ghabmoef
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-10-14 11:19:04 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Cyniac wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
The logoffski nerf is only for SC's


Actually it's a basic change to logoff mechanics and is not ship specific in any way - will affect super carriers, carriers, freighters, dreads, shuttles... alright maybe won't have much of an impact on shuttles P




The amount it affects any given ship is directly proportional to it's size and signature size and inversely proportional to its sensor strength. Meaning that ships with huge EHP and sig and medium sensor strength (AKA supercaps) will be much more affected than other ships.



True - but contrary to the initial statement, it does not "only" affect SC's.


It has the potential to have some interesting effects in highsec wars with a single frigate being able to hold down a freighter or jump freighter till support arrives for the kill.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-10-14 19:25:45 UTC
Nerf to fighters has already been confirmed by the devs as not happening. Have nothing to add to the rest of the discussion, but that bit of misinformation needs to be clarified.

Fighters are NOT getting nerfed.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#16 - 2011-10-15 15:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
TL;DR - 'Normal' Carriers will remain largely unchanged in the next patch tho' fighters will be nerfed a little.


"A little" ?

Do keep in mind that the nerf to fighters makes them mostly unable to hit anything smaller than another cap ship. Their new orbit velocity is fast enough that they can't even hit most battleships. Not saying I disagree with this completely, since cap ships were never intended to solo entire battleship gangs, but it's a pretty big nerf.


Doesnt sound like its happening now but essentially the primary role of a carrier is logistics, not dps.

Cyniac wrote:
mxzf wrote:
*snip*
The amount it affects any given ship is directly proportional to it's size and signature size and inversely proportional to its sensor strength. Meaning that ships with huge EHP and sig and medium sensor strength (AKA supercaps) will be much more affected than other ships.



True - but contrary to the initial statement, it does not "only" affect SC's.


It has the potential to have some interesting effects in highsec wars with a single frigate being able to hold down a freighter or jump freighter till support arrives for the kill.


My derp, I mis-read the part about logoffski as it was in amongst the SC stuff. It does affect all ships but larger ships with large sigs will be worst affected. Tho having said this anyone should be able to scan a ship down in 15 minutes given that the logoffski will only put it 1000,000 km from where you are now.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Dante Fitzosborne
The Mushroom Farm
CAStabouts
#17 - 2011-10-15 15:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dante Fitzosborne
Dibblerette wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
Last December, I purchased a second account and started a new character for the purpose of acquiring a carrier alt. Since then, she's been averaging just over 2700 SP/hour, and is nearing the end of her first remap. She currently has just over 21 million skill points.

Consider that I haven't even injected the drones skill yet, and have about a year remaining before she'll be ready to fly her new ship. If you're okay with that kind of timeline, then by all means start training for capitals. But do know that it is a very long road.


Wow, that's longer-term than I had first thought. And you were training strictly carrier/support skills the entire time?
I'm sure I could use all the training time to make more ISK to afford nicer fittings and more of them, but wow, almost 2 years.
Thanks for this advice, and everyone else's too.


I've had this character for about a year and a half and he can fly Carriers, freighters, jump freighters, blockade runners, and an Orca (and sub-caps as well). In fact he's had a thanny for about 4 months now. Now he is almost completely restricted to one race at the moment but he can do much more than just undock what he can fly. Yes getting into a carrier takes a while but two years is a bit extreme.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#18 - 2011-10-15 17:59:50 UTC
Dante Fitzosborne wrote:
Dibblerette wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
Last December, I purchased a second account and started a new character for the purpose of acquiring a carrier alt. Since then, she's been averaging just over 2700 SP/hour, and is nearing the end of her first remap. She currently has just over 21 million skill points.

Consider that I haven't even injected the drones skill yet, and have about a year remaining before she'll be ready to fly her new ship. If you're okay with that kind of timeline, then by all means start training for capitals. But do know that it is a very long road.


Wow, that's longer-term than I had first thought. And you were training strictly carrier/support skills the entire time?
I'm sure I could use all the training time to make more ISK to afford nicer fittings and more of them, but wow, almost 2 years.
Thanks for this advice, and everyone else's too.


I've had this character for about a year and a half and he can fly Carriers, freighters, jump freighters, blockade runners, and an Orca (and sub-caps as well). In fact he's had a thanny for about 4 months now. Now he is almost completely restricted to one race at the moment but he can do much more than just undock what he can fly. Yes getting into a carrier takes a while but two years is a bit extreme.


I'd say 3-4 months from a well-skilled sub-cap pilot.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com