These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Legitimate game mechanic.

First post
Author
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-02-25 17:56:53 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side.


yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity.
as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside.

Pilot error entered into the picture long before he arrived at the Jita gate.


He could have made a thousand errors, ten thousand errors, even a million errors, but if none of those errors are what caused the problem in the first place, its ultimately irrelevant to the situation at hand and is just an excuse to ignore what actually happened. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#102 - 2013-02-25 18:03:03 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side.


yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity.
as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside.

Pilot error entered into the picture long before he arrived at the Jita gate.


except that really had nothing to do with him being in the situation he was in when he got locked and shot at. that was a direct result of the gate being closed, had it not been closed, he wouldn't have been there.

i'm not denying the OP is an idiot, i'm just saying that's not why he got killed.


The red saw him in local, landed immediately after the OP attempted to jump through. Had his attempt been successful the Minmatar would have simply followed him in and popped him while aligning (which is exactly what he did, just on the other side of the gate). The situation would have been identical, except it would have occured in Jita instead.

The reason he died was because of the choices he made prior to undocking. Once he did so, his fate was sealed. Only the location of his death changed.

You need to remember that "Traffic Control" is a legitimate game mechanic, put in place intentionally to throttle traffic when a system has a high load on it. We are seeing it more often now, and will continue to do so, but it has been part of the "reality" of this game for years... and pilots really have no excuse for not being aware of the possibility.

So again, this was not a bug. This was a very predictable game mechanic that he completely failed to take into account (among many, many other things).

Again, the cause of this pilots death was due to the choices he made before he undocked.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2013-02-25 18:04:36 UTC
Keep in mind, its a predictable game mechanic, but its not widely advertised.
Dave Stark
#104 - 2013-02-25 18:10:33 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
except it would have occured in Jita instead.


exactly, so the gate being closed, was the reason he died where he did, in the situation he was in.

other side of the gate = pilot error.
the side he died on = not pilot error, since an individual pilot doesn't control whether the gate is open or not.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#105 - 2013-02-25 18:21:41 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
except it would have occured in Jita instead.


exactly, so the gate being closed, was the reason he died where he did, in the situation he was in.

other side of the gate = pilot error.
the side he died on = not pilot error, since an individual pilot doesn't control whether the gate is open or not.


It doesn't matter which side of the gate he died on, that isn't what he is complaining about. He's trying to blame his inability to jump through immediately for causing his death, which is not the case at all.

There are many things in EvE that a pilot cannot directly control, however that does not mean that he should not be aware of those things and make his plans accordingly.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#106 - 2013-02-25 18:24:53 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Keep in mind, its a predictable game mechanic, but its not widely advertised.

They used to send out a pop up to everyone whenever a gate was experiencing traffic control.

Due to the storm of protests from EvE pilots they had to remove the mechanic.

Now to raise awareness I could see this as a good addition to the Autopilot information panel, or possibly the proposed Notifications information panel, where the traffic control notification only appears if one of the systems in your route is experiencing traffic control.

This solution could perhaps solve the issue of using traffic control as an excuse to justify bad decisions.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-02-25 18:28:30 UTC
Why would people complain about that? Or was it appearing to EVERYONE regardless of how far away they were?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#108 - 2013-02-25 18:30:11 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
Why would people complain about that? Or was it appearing to EVERYONE regardless of how far away they were?

To everyone.

Now perhaps it could be a more focused notification.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-02-26 06:30:47 UTC
It appears that people coming in to this thread assume I'm posting because of me crying for my loss and I say nay, I care not. I lost a 250 mill isk raven just earlier today because I felt grabbing a sandwich and forgot to get some missiles, my fault my loss. However in the case of my badger it was not due to my error but rather a "legitimate game mechanic" that I was killed.
Dave Stark
#110 - 2013-02-26 07:22:16 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
He's trying to blame his inability to jump through immediately for causing his death, which is not the case at all.


except, it is.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#111 - 2013-02-26 08:46:09 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:


To clarify: My corp participates in faction warfare as Caldari state protecterate.

The corporation I am in has no active war declarations.


Was this pointed out to you already?

If not, your corp is in a militia that has a standing active war declaration. Two of them.

Just thought I would point it out.

Thank you.

Respect the EVE.

dark heartt
#112 - 2013-02-26 08:55:18 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
It appears that people coming in to this thread assume I'm posting because of me crying for my loss and I say nay, I care not. I lost a 250 mill isk raven just earlier today because I felt grabbing a sandwich and forgot to get some missiles, my fault my loss. However in the case of my badger it was not due to my error but rather a "legitimate game mechanic" that I was killed.


This post just convinced me that you are probably not the smartest guy around. Is it that hard to dock up when you need food? Is it that hard to tank your ship? Even just one med extender would have made it harder for them to kill that badger.

You have won my daily Darwin Award. Congrats and please don't procreate.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#113 - 2013-02-26 09:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Steve Spooner wrote:
It appears that people coming in to this thread assume I'm posting because of me crying for my loss and I say nay, I care not. I lost a 250 mill isk raven just earlier today because I felt grabbing a sandwich and forgot to get some missiles, my fault my loss. However in the case of my badger it was not due to my error but rather a "legitimate game mechanic" that I was killed.


You could have used this loss as a valuable opportunity to learn to fly appropriate ships for appropriate tasks. But alas, you don't seem to.

You don't go in with a schoolbus in the middle of a mined warzone, get stuck on a terrain bump, get hit by artillery and then complain against the bump. You just don't go in a warzone with a schoolbus. Period.

It's widely known since years that gate locks happen at Jita.
Deal with it, before others deal with you.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2013-02-26 09:12:00 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side.


yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity.
as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside.

Pilot error entered into the picture long before he arrived at the Jita gate.


except that really had nothing to do with him being in the situation he was in when he got locked and shot at. that was a direct result of the gate being closed, had it not been closed, he wouldn't have been there.

i'm not denying the OP is an idiot, i'm just saying that's not why he got killed.


The red saw him in local, landed immediately after the OP attempted to jump through. Had his attempt been successful the Minmatar would have simply followed him in and popped him while aligning (which is exactly what he did, just on the other side of the gate). The situation would have been identical, except it would have occured in Jita instead.

yea, because red pilot will never attack target until it jumps.....

or we have no aggression timer What?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2013-02-26 09:16:27 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Aren Madigan wrote:
Why would people complain about that? Or was it appearing to EVERYONE regardless of how far away they were?

To everyone.

Now perhaps it could be a more focused notification.


I'd say they should go for that then... I don't think there's any reason you shouldn't be informed when you're in the same system as the gate. At least when its due to a population lock. If its just because of a bunch of people jumping at once, shouldn't appear.
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#116 - 2013-02-26 09:28:52 UTC
300M is not a big loss given the circumstances.

The only problem I see here is that whilst the server population is growing day by day and Jita being the bigest trade hub in EVE, it gets locked down more and more often. So there is a long queue to enter Jita while inside there are hundred of bots spaming or just station trade all day long. And that's extremely annoying for many of us, especially when you are in big rush and have no time to wait.

The solution would be to introduce the parking ticket. You got two hours free, anything more is going to be charged. Longer you stay, more to pay. This way maybe we could get rid of those annoying bots infesting Jita and blocking the legit players to actually play the game.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2013-02-26 10:38:33 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
The solution would be to
I got a better solution: stop going to Jita and use one of the other 3 major trade hubs. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept. Apparently most people who play EVE lack a sense of apprehension. First time I went to Jita, I felt this incredible sense of foreboding. I knew there was something not right about it. So I avoid that place mostly, and when I do go there, I fly cheaply. Why am I the only one who gets the creeps when I'm there? I don't have a fear of large social gatherings, in fact I actually feel more comfortable in them. But Jita is just creepy. Leave it behind, forget it, you can live your EVE career just as well pretending it doesn't exist!

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#118 - 2013-02-26 11:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Mhax Arthie wrote:

The solution would be to introduce the parking ticket. You got two hours free, anything more is going to be charged. Longer you stay, more to pay. This way maybe we could get rid of those annoying bots infesting Jita and blocking the legit players to actually play the game.


Parking ticket is a cool idea. But there is no problem here to be solved, Jita is well represented as a bustling megaport with spammed advertisements and traffic delays. I love that, there is nothing that could be done to give Jita more character or to make it a more appropriate center of trade in New Eden.

Kudos to CCP and all the scammers, gankers, and badger pilots who make Jita the place that it is!

If you want a more civil trading environment with the same level of support for ship fitting, comparable prices, and no laggy delays then Amarr is just 9 jumps to the south.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-02-26 11:22:15 UTC
On topic:

Yes Pilot should have been more careful, not smartest move ect.ect.


Aside from that:

1) It would be nice to have a Empire trafic control channel, It's a Scifi game, if trafic is stuk in Jita it would be nice see that without to much trouble, not only for the sake of not being ganked, as well or the sake of waiting a few hours because I;ve better things to do. Maybe by a empire chat channel, that only leaves messages. Trafic jam at jita/bla trade, Icursion in Black rise region ect ect. Now we have to check forums social media ect ect.

2) I kinda dislike the need for a millitia member to have an alt run your cargo within your own miltia space:
- it's a real obstacle for newer players.

- It makes absolutly no sence that a lowsec system controled by the enemy blocked you from docking in a station but allows you to hang near the gate o their main trade hub.

Might also help people to go to other trade hubs.

It's nice to have the option to use an alt for traveling, though it shouldn't be needed in your own empire.

Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#120 - 2013-02-26 11:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Steve Spooner wrote:
I recently lost a badger with 350~ million isk worth of ammo, nothing new right?
.....
I was 1000m from the Jita gate, I could have jumped through but nop, officals shut the gate down due to congestion



Out of curiosity why were you bringing ammo into Jita?

*oh nm, I thought I read somewhere you said that you were bringing it in. I get it now.