EVE General Discussion

Only if the congo has a product that north America doesn't have and that product is unique and/or needed.


o/
Celly

the problem is that in high sec, we have no choice but to refine at a station, you can't anchor refineries in high sec space.

o/
Celly

I know that! :)

So in empire you would either refine at a loss (empire tax which makes sense) or setup a POS at a lowsec system with a refinery of your own. Taxes in lowsec should be lower but still make it less profitable than refining in nullsec or in a POS. On a side note, you can always setup a POS in a wspace system with a static to empire space.

Right now there's simply no logic in moving to lowsec or null if you're an indy player. Every single thing is better in empire. There's no downside to it. If you actually move your prodution away from empire, you're losing efficiency. This needs to change, FAST!

Production in empire would become a luxury, as most high end minerals would be on very short supply. In fact, you'd have a reverse in roles, where nullsec would sell to empire, stuff like T2 ships and fittings.

Makes too much sense in my head :)

Also, I live mostly in Empire, but I'm basically an industrial player ... and I feel no need to move out to nullsec as there's nothing "better" out there :)

Dynamic slot costs will (long term) be perfectly tuned by the market. It will represent the value of that station's slots over all alternatives.

Eliminating vast quantities of station slots is simply necessary because without doing so, all that will happen is a little more movement around HS (since there are tons of open station slots all the time, and so the average cost over all of HS would remain quite cheap). Why should NPC corps continue to massively subsidize capsuleer industry?

Material modifiers would be something added over time while looking at actual data.

A massive imbalance generally requires similarly massive changes to fix.
AOE DDs were massively overpowered, and removing them was a massive nerf to Titan owners.
HS industry is massively overpowered, so fixing it will require a significant nerf to HS industry.

Uprooting large portions of HS industry is the goal. Because HS is the only place where significant amounts of industry is performed. Making Nullsec competitive will uproot large portions of HS industry if done properly.

What's the "game breaking" worst case scenario you're imagining, and in what way would it be "game breaking"?

Yeah, I don't disagree that there are lots of advantages to being/staying in high sec right now, especially for players like me who don't like PvP.
there are still some drawbacks to being in high sec though, for example, PI in high sec is doable, but with 6 planets in null, or even low, I'd come out way ahead when compared to scraping around to make POS fuel in high sec.

I really need to just go down to providence I guess and bring all that I have to offer to an alliance down there.

can't fight much, but I can build the hell out of things :P

o/
Celly

Like conflict diamonds and such?

To stay on topic... how much of a full t1 ship CAN you make in null? Realistically.

I must admit I personally would like to see a massive increase in jump fuel costs at the same time as Null industry is redone to protect hi-sec markets.

Null sec should be able to produce the goods it needs itself in the quantities it needs but in saying that it has a longer logistical chain to hi-sec so goods from Null going to Hi-sec should cost more.

Look at it this way for example I grew up in Western Australia, now WA has the nullabour between it and the rest of the country, so goods made in WA are quite cheap but goods from the rest of the country and the rest of the world cost a lot more, a computer for instance is 500-1000 dollars higher in WA than on the east coast because of those extra costs.

So give Null the ability to make what it needs but not the ability to flood hi-sec with Null goods. As it is we are talking of removing Hi-secs biggest purchaser, we do not then want to replace it with someone like China.

PI is the perfect example of a correctly balanced feature in the game. You can do the bare minimum to be viable in empire and then the rewards go up with the risk. Go to null or wspace and you can get about 4x the profit of a empire dweller (regarding PI).

Industry needs to be phased out of NPC stations and into POSs ... if it makes people happer, allow small refineries in POSs in 0.5 systems. Make it a conflict driver! ;)

Wait.

First we need to nerf wardecs more.

Earlier in this thread, I stated that I "wouldn't have a problem" with high sec taxes being adjusted (and that if they are, they should probably be relative to npc corp standing like the refine tax.) But, as I'm still keeping up with this discussion, I've got to chime in again and state that anyone asking for taxes to go up 5-10 percent needs to be dragged out behind some woodshed and put down.

I don't know how much of a profit margin you all think high sec manufacturers are making on t1 goods, but in my own experience, it's commonly 10 percent or less. I manufacture some items at cost now just to provide them for players in my region. So taxes also can't be raised so high that production declines due to having no/negative profit margins.

Again, not something you can just poke a stick at (toss out random numbers) to see what happens. (I'm starting to suspect some of you tortured ants as children. Use the magnifying glass! No, no! The salt!! )

Even worse, after reading that inflation is frequently being cited as a reason to raise high sec manufacturing taxes I'm even less enthusiastic. Moar sinks! Ok. Sure. But am I the only person who thinks its a little ridiculous to ask the community to pay more to subsidize inflation while PLEX sales rise like a hot air balloon? Why should we be asked to subsidize other players PTW games?

And, it's true that there's an abundance of public high sec manufacturing slots, but that certainly isn't the case everywhere. I can't manufacture in my chosen system, for example, due to 2 (thats 2 - not 20) older, larger, corps monopolizing my available public slots. Other systems within 1-2 jumps have similar issues. Some in the 3-4 jump range have no stations at all. I'm operating 6-10 jumps from hq (and my POS) as it is. My personal experience here doesn't readily lend itself to some of these claims and I don't even operate in a busy area. I suspect other folks have it even worse. A lot of this discussion is too cerebral imo.

If one character can operate 10 manufacturing slots at once, a single acct. can occupy 30. And single acct. holders aren't quite unicorns yet, but they are an endangered species. Many systems have 1-2 stations with public manufacturing slots (50-100) so while that seems like a lot (to some of you) it often isn't the case as the mineral cost of building t1 items is so easily met and a single player both needs and can occupy many at once. A single motivated player or even a small corp can occupy hundreds simultaneously.

But my point is that again, the number of a thing, is not, in and of itself, evidence of imbalance.

Moving high sec manufacturing to POS's presents even worse issues. I have no idea what it would do for anyone else, but it would literally destroy my game. Anyone who is advocating this should give up the raise taxes/reduce slots debate entirely. If this is done, the number of available slots to any given player drops like a rock (a POS can only provide so many) and their taxes go up 100-300 mill isk/month. Nobody is going to care about a 2% increase on the cost of a public slot if taxes go from zip to 300 mill/ month. But having to haul ore, minerals, and goods via freighter - hundreds of jumps daily - just to maintain my playstyle is a deal-breaker. I can't live in my POS. My least-favorite activity in EVE is piloting the damn freighter. I start yawning within 2 jumps. I hate that thing. I haven't yet begun to complain if this is made reality.

This whole debate just confuses me. People are talking about raising taxes to combat inflation while PLEX adds isk to the economy. They're debating a lack of public slots and low-end minerals in null as imbalanced (we should be able to produce what we need!) when the game was designed that way. (No sec is supposed to have everything it needs. What players need is to interact. Success in this game should not be defined as emancipation from EVE.) They're pointing at the number of public slots in high sec as evidence of said imbalance w/o taking into acct. the miniscule t1 mineral cost of occupying one, nor the number a single player/corp can use/need. Security isn't being discussed as a possible reason many folks live under high-sec's umbrella. And all of the proposed solutions would negatively impact my gameplay into apocalypse while curiously enriching folks in null.

The more I learn about these issues, the less I understand this debate.

Serious question: Is this what they call metagaming?

YK