EVE General Discussion

Let's imagine a little.

Some imaginary 0.0 alliance needs stuff: ships, modules, ammo. There is war and alliance needs it "yesterday". PVP-oriented members need lots of different stuff. Traders (read: resellers from Jita) can't fullfit demand. As result local prices are higher than in empire.

Minerals? - present
Manufacturing lines? - present (let's imagine alliance has outposts/POSes)
Research/invention lines? - present (let's imagine alliance has outposts/POSes)

Profits?
well. if high-sec people can make profits from manufacturing (when everyone manufactures something) then it will be a lot easier to make bigger profits in 0.0 (where no one manufactures at all).

In the end there is reasons to try it. Can't say about 0.0 as a whole but i remember LoD in Droneland where my corp used all available manufacturing lines (from 3 stations + POSes) all the time making capitals/dreadnoughts/supers from drone alloys.

Quite the opposite. Putting a cap on how large you can expand your manufacturing operation in highsec incentives the non-casual industrialist, the wholesaler, the guy who crushes the newbie indy with cumulative wealth and razor thin margins, to move out where manufacturing resources are more plentiful, which is where ship consumption is more plentiful. This frees up highsec manufacturing, and more importantly the highsec market, for the casual gamer.

People who crush other people with razor thin margins are usually station traders, not industrialists.

Unless you are an industrialist who likes playing penny wars with remote buy and sell orders, usually if you sit at a station and trade all day then you'll find it un-needed to actually produce items for a profit.

Come to think of it... No one ever argues that the station traders are ruining the economy or make too much isk.

Despite the fact some make billions a day if they are good at it and don't mind playing penny wars with 200 orders.

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One more thing, no one gets crushed if they do the spreadsheets and see that they can make a profit off a product (at least more than its mineral prices) if there are open buy orders for that price. Sure the super industrialist can fill those orders more quickly, but if you get your goods to market before someone else does, then you can sell at the buy orders and still make a nice profit.

Looking at Jita I even see plenty of T1 crap that has 30-50% profit over its mineral cost based not on the lowest seller price but the highest buyer price. If you can simply sell those goods without having to play penny wars you can make a profit as an newbie industrialist.

That is actually a stronger goal than mine (since I want the Economic costs to manufacture in either place to be equal), unless you're only looking at balance sheet costs, in which case you're simply doing the math incorrectly.



Equal Economic Profits means that a rational actor should be (ignoring their appetite for risk*) indifferent between manufacturing in HS and Nullsec for any given market. And, seeing as a single industrialist can and will blow right through the demand in all but the largest Nullsec markets (VFK and... uh... VFK) in short order, Nullsec industry cannot simply be "well, if you ignore the cost of not having access to significant markets, you can kind of pretend to make a profit," or people will simply continue importing everything from HS.

It has to be able to export to HS and it should be able to do so at the same total Economic costs as manufacturing in HS.

*Not the cost of risk, just the appetite.

You're ignoring the potential rise in demand should people be pushed out into those regions in the first place and that transportation costs aren't equal for all of null sec. Or if you're not, I'm not convinced you realize how impractical adjusting these costs for each individual system is. That's why I keep bringing up the border null regions. I'm also not sure how you think my proposal is harsher or "stronger" as you put it when it actually removes a cost from the equation entirely.

It's generally safe to assume that would be the brightest star.

Of course not. Items profitable today are not guaranteed to profitable tomorrow. Its Economics 101.

That said, you have the ability to put forth the effort to look for a new product to manufacture to make profits.

And its not that hard in this game to switch to another product to produce. You don't have to retool a factory or anything like you would in the real world. If something is too unprofitable to produce, I stop making it and switch to a product that does make a nice percentage.

Or are you going to say CCP needs to give handouts to lazy industrialists so they don't have to use a different blueprint?

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And another damn thing I have to bring up is that you don't have to be lazy and sell to Jita all the time or even the other major hubs.

I know people all the time who want a higher profit and work hard for their money by finding systems that also sell items but at a higher price, because people don't always want to fly to Jita to get things.

If you think the super industrialists are ruining your profits, you either need to make different crap or sell it to a different market.

You don't need a CCP government bailout to keep your failing business model going.

Are you saying those older players didn't earn their isk like everyone else? Did CCP put all that isk in their wallets magically because they were older players?

So rich hardworking players who spent all that time and effort to be rich don't deserve their isk and that CCP should transfer their wealth to the lower classes?

Sounds like "Space Socialism" to me.

I have personal experience to the contrary, my good sir.

Would you go into 0.0 if Zydrine was a billion ISK per unit?