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Officially too stupid for jury duty
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Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-21 18:13:23 UTC
In a high profile case in the UK a judge had to dismiss the entire jury and order a retrial because the jury couldn't understand their basic duties.

I'm on a mobile so can't link the main page but just google "pryce" and "jury" and you'll probably find it.

Can't believe it's come to this.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#2 - 2013-02-21 18:22:46 UTC
this is what he`s on about

I must confess.... this must be one of the stupidest jury`s in the history of UK law ... no wonder the judge told them all to **** off .... having said that ...i have to do jury service in may What?
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-02-21 18:24:19 UTC
Quote:
The jury had asked the judge questions about its basic duties after about 14 hours of deliberations and lengthy advice from him about how to assess the evidence.

The questions included seeking a definition of reaching a verdict "beyond reasonable doubt" - something the judge had given them in writing.

In another question, the jury asked if one of them could come to a verdict based on reasons that were not presented in court or supported by the evidence. A third question asked about Ms Pryce's religious convictions, even though this was not a matter in the trial.

Shocked
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-21 18:25:27 UTC
jason hill wrote:
this is what he`s on about

I must confess.... this must be one of the stupidest jury`s in the history of UK law ... no wonder the judge told them all to **** off .... having said that ...i have to do jury service in may What?

Thanks for the link :)

They are being defended in some corners from those who say jury duty is much harder than it looks but... hmm yeah.

You can let us know in May :)
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#5 - 2013-02-21 18:26:53 UTC
spot on mate ...the religious qustion !!!! WTF !!!!
peacebee
Turian Standings and Loans
#6 - 2013-02-21 18:26:53 UTC
I feel ashamed to be British.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#7 - 2013-02-21 18:29:50 UTC
more of a reson for the UK to look at proffessional juror`s .... especially in the more complex cases like accountancy and tax law ...because it gernerally considered to be just too bloody complex for the average man in the street ...im dreading getting picked for a trial like that !
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#8 - 2013-02-21 18:44:10 UTC
In our US of A, the lawyers try to get the most ignorant, manipulable juries as possible. Really.

If you have a modicum of intelligence, one is dismissed.

IS there no middle ground anywhere ??

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#9 - 2013-02-21 19:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
In a lot of U.S. states, the attorneys get to interview the jurors after the trial ends.

Q: "Why did you decide for the plaintiff? You weren't convinced by the defendent's evidence?"
A: "I don't know. Everybody else thought the plaintiff should win, so I just voted the same."

A: "Why did you decide for the plaintiff?"
Q: "That defendant looked funny."

And the all-time most popular one....
Q: "Why did you decide for the plaintiff?"
A: "I didn't like that lawyer the defendant had."
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#10 - 2013-02-21 19:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Complex Potential wrote:
jason hill wrote:
this is what he`s on about

I must confess.... this must be one of the stupidest jury`s in the history of UK law ... no wonder the judge told them all to **** off .... having said that ...i have to do jury service in may What?

Thanks for the link :)

They are being defended in some corners from those who say jury duty is much harder than it looks but... hmm yeah.

You can let us know in May :)



Jury Duty is super easy, I'm serving it right now. First thing that I do is drive over to the one town in the county that has a courthouse. All of the prospective jurors hang out at the Trading Post which is akin to town hall, which happens to be a converted bar. We BS for 5 hours talking about hunting, fishing, or various redneck things we do all day, up until the sheriff comes over and tells us that the defendant decided to settle on whatever petty crime they've done. We all laugh and go home.

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jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#11 - 2013-02-21 19:17:46 UTC
that might well be the case ...in your case but this particular trial in the UK ... is and has been in the public intrest for quite some time ....and if you read the questions that the juror`s asked the judge ...you would "bang head on desk" as well . Roll
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-02-21 19:36:56 UTC
What's worrying is that if I ever find myself wrongly convicted I might have to rely on a jury like that!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#13 - 2013-02-21 20:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
That jury is a direct result of government meddling in the education system for the last 25 years. Our education system in the UK teaches pupils to pass exams, nothing more, nothing less. It's easily proven by the record number of pupils who leave school with good exam grades, who then go on to employment or further education and have to be re-educated in the basics, it's education to the lowest common denominator.

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peacebee
Turian Standings and Loans
#14 - 2013-02-21 20:38:31 UTC
But its just they never brought up a problem, until they was at the final deliberation.
They didn't know what they was doing, and instead of asking someone, they shut up and just kept plowing along. Then thought if they asked 10 indirect questions about what they was doing rather then what the case was about.
You want the common person as your jury but it seems it was all the most stupid, timid people they could find.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-02-22 00:27:42 UTC
we can't tweet during deliberation? how am I supposed to know how I feel about something if all my friends can't weigh in on the issue? this is ************!

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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-02-22 00:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Juror #4....Roll

*Edit: Also I can't serve on a jury as I'm very biased toward law enforcement... they had a reason to arrest this guilty person Straight

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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#17 - 2013-02-22 16:30:00 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Complex Potential wrote:
jason hill wrote:
this is what he`s on about

I must confess.... this must be one of the stupidest jury`s in the history of UK law ... no wonder the judge told them all to **** off .... having said that ...i have to do jury service in may What?

Thanks for the link :)

They are being defended in some corners from those who say jury duty is much harder than it looks but... hmm yeah.

You can let us know in May :)

I've done jury duty, including in a case that awarded a US$400M+ verdict (that one went to SCOTUS - Verdict was upheld).
It's NOT hard. This jury must've been selected from the bottom of a sewage settling pond.

Most cases, if you're empanneled for criminal trial, will be short and to-the-point. Also will be pretty clear on what happened. Real court has very little to do with Perry Mason, Esq. The more involved cases, where you find yourself seated for days or even weeks, the various lawyers will try *really* hard to walk you by the hand through their side of the story. The kinds of lawyers who show up for those cases are smart, capable, and know what they're doing. You will not be left in the dark. Unless you're as stupid as the jury in the OP.

Civil trials can get a bit more interesting (true!) and complicated, but again, the lawyers for both sides will try very hard to make sure you understand the issues at-hand - confusion works against them! Each side, of course, will have their own 'spin' but they can't really impart a spin until you understand what they're talking about - So educate you they will.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#18 - 2013-02-22 16:33:19 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:

Jury Duty is super easy, I'm serving it right now. First thing that I do is drive over to the one town in the county that has a courthouse. All of the prospective jurors hang out at the Trading Post which is akin to town hall, which happens to be a converted bar. We BS for 5 hours talking about hunting, fishing, or various redneck things we do all day, up until the sheriff comes over and tells us that the defendant decided to settle on whatever petty crime they've done. We all laugh and go home.

Most often, yeah, that's precisely the case. Adjust the details to fit your locale, but the process is pretty much just that.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#19 - 2013-02-22 16:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
jason hill wrote:
more of a reson for the UK to look at proffessional juror`s .... especially in the more complex cases like accountancy and tax law ...because it gernerally considered to be just too bloody complex for the average man in the street ...im dreading getting picked for a trial like that !

I sat jury on the Exxon-Mobil v. SABIC case. Intellectual property & international licenseing case. Very complex – But no issues with jury comprehension. The lawyers were very damned careful to be sure we understood the issues of law at-hand. BOTH sides worked hand-in-hand to ensure we understood what we were hearing. Then each side applied their own spin to the issues.
Our verdict (for the plaintiff) was upheld - the size of the verdict was due to some interesting peculiarities in the case agreements between plaintiffs’ and Saudi Arabian law. Yes: My peers and I sat in a Wilmington, Delaware courtroom and decided a case based partially on the laws of another nation. The Saudi Law determined the size of the award - We'd have granted a much lower award, if we'd had any wiggle-room. We didn't.

Also upheld was the decision & authority to try the case where and how it was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Mobil_Corp._v._Saudi_Basic_Industries_Corp.


Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
In our US of A, the lawyers try to get the most ignorant, manipulable juries as possible. Really.

If you have a modicum of intelligence, one is dismissed.

IS there no middle ground anywhere ??

Dude. I operated nuclear reactors for the US Navy. That puts me in rarified intellectual company - and I was one of the highest placers within my education peer-group. These days, I work for a major pharma writing and assembling clinical and patient-safety reports for submission to regulatory agencies world-wide, as well as interpreting changes to reporting requirements based on changes on international regulatory law. I'm the pretty much the definition of "Opposite of Dumb."
I've NEVER been dismissed from a jury pool, once we got to the selection process. Many cases settled before we got to court, but if I sat for voir dire, I was invariably empanelled.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-02-22 17:02:12 UTC
silens vesica wrote:

Dude. I operated nuclear reactors for the US Navy. That puts me in rarified intellectual company - and I was one of the highest placers within my education peer-group. These days, I work for a major pharma writing and assembling clinical and patient-safety reports for submission to regulatory agencies world-wide, as well as interpreting changes to reporting requirements based on changes on international regulatory law. I'm the pretty much the definition of "Opposite of Dumb."
I've NEVER been dismissed from a jury pool, once we got to the selection process. Many cases settled before we got to court, but if I sat for voir dire, I was invariably empanelled.

You. Brain. Big. Ug!
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