EVE General Discussion

Hi again LHA.

I would just like to point something out here. I am going to assume that you as an industrialist make and sell ships. Did you know that you are PVPing during that process?

When you create a sell order, you are selling your product aginst other players, competing for a customers business. That is Player vs Player interaction.
I'm also guessing that you mine the ore you need to make those products. Now depending on the system you are in, you might be competing with 1 or 100 other miners (even more in the popular systems). How many times have you been to a belt and found it completely mined out? The race to get the good ore is Player vs Player interaction.
What if you buy the goods you need to make the items? Guess what? You are competing in a Player vs Player interaction again to buy them at the best price possible.
But what if you are a hauler and you move goods? Well you guessed it this too involves Player vs Player interaction. If you move the goods of the open contracts, then you are competing to get the good contracts first. If you work for Push or Red Frog this can be doubly true.

You say you have no interest in PVP, yet you openly say you PVP when you sell the things you make from the minerals you mine and the goods you move.

I know that you say that people who are not PVPers shouldn't be the target of PVP focused players but guess what: when you signed up for an Eve account you signed up for a game that is all about PVP. I know that fighting might not be your cup of tea, but every time you undock in this harsh place we call New Eden, you are risking becoming a target. You have agreed to that by making an account and logging into the game.

Yes there are mechanics in place that restrict you becoming a target in highsec, but they only restrict, not stop completely. I've been on the receiving end of a suicide gank this week and lost just a little over 500 million in one death, but I'm not complaining. In fact I'm beating my self up for it because I got complacent and ignored the steps I had in place to prevent that sort of stuff happening.

You may read this and think bah Dark is nothing but another PVPer looking to rain on my parade... You are wrong. I have been a market trader since I started in Eve. I made my first billion on the market. I mine and manufacture. I'm looking into invention right now. I have blown some ships up and flew with RvB for a while, but first and foremost I have always been a 'carebear.' But when I came to Eve it was in the understanding that it was a cut-throat and harsh environment, where danger was around every corner and you could die at any corner.

If you do bother to read this post, and I really hope you do, all I can say to end is this: You can complain all you want, but the people who suicide gank and hunt down indy players will do that till the day the server shuts down and there isn't anything you, me or CCP can do to change that. So instead of getting on the forums and preaching that you aren't interested in PVP, adapt. Change what you do to make yourself less of a target. Hell if I can do it, anyone can.

What this boils down to is that all PvP in EvE is consensual, assuming you are properly aware of game mechanics. I, like our OP hero, PvP frequently, though I prefer ships to the marketplace. But every piece of PvP I engage in is consensual, in that I know the risks I am getting into... I am not always guaranteed of victory, but between D-scan, MWD-cloak, and the knowledge that when I undock I accept that I will sometimes jump into a camp that will catch me, there is zero hostile player interaction in this game that I am not accepting the risk of.

EDIT: to clarify - when I PvP, I'm out for a decent fight - MWD-cloak and d-scan are the natural tools of any PvPer who wishes to weed out the various fights that aren't going to be fun for them, aka anytime when you're jumping into a fleet/camp solo or want to find out just how much backup a baitship has.

If a player desires no risk of having his ship blown up, and has the means and knowledge to do so, there are a multitude of ways to accomplish the goal - don't criticize them because they have a different goal, but rather accept that they have found the best way to accomplish their goals within the limitations of the game rules.

Well, this thread has proven only one thing to me - no matter what MMO you play, the PvE vs PvP threads all boil down to the same thing:

Carebears: I like to build things
PeeVeePee'ers: I like to break things
Carebears: You're bad
PeeVeePee'ers: Nuh uh, You're bad.
Carebears: No, you're wrong.
PeeVeePee'ers: No, You are the ones that are wrong.

And around and around in circles we go, cue the Benny Hill Music.

Interesting to read about Eve from the perspective of an industrialist.
Well done, OP, you've made Eve an enjoyable experience on your own terms - It's more than many players ever achieve (although they may not be aware of it).

lol, You sound like You'd be happier with a purely NPC seeded market. :)

No just with the bears gone. The market will be just fine.

I'm sure that's against the rules?!?!

Yes, You'e in for Life.

You'll only leave with Your feet first.

And for every failure You'll hae to make amends by cutting off a little piece of Your right pinky finger.

I am sure that the CCP accounting and marketing dept would love you.
Hey goons, given that you plan on placing 3 or 4 people on this CSM, can you make sure this visionary is one of them?

…and the fact remains that they wouldn't be gone anyway — they'd just imagine a new bubble that they believe they live in and make up some new arbitrary rules that they think applies to that bubble. Bears (by extension of beliefs in general) are quite malleable that way.