EVE General Discussion

Came expecting carebear tears, left satisfied.

In another thread, that was correctly locked as a rant, we almost had a chance at an interesting conversation.

Carebears:
You say carebear like it is an insult. I own it. I'm a carebear. I'm a high sec industrialist BECAUSE I have no interest in PVP.

You say that EVE is about ship-to-ship PVP. Maybe that is what it is about to you, but that is NOT what it is about to me. To me, EVE is about harvesting resources, producing goods, driving the market..


Minimizing War Decs:
There is no mechanism that allows me to block getting a war dec against my player run corp, and that is fine. I've never asked CCP to add one. What I can do is attempt to minimize the number of war dec's.

1) Never post on my main, ever.
To help avoid war dec's I NEVER post on my main. I understand why people request that I post on my main, but I have to continue to decline.


2) Small corp and don't aggressively recruit:
All my toons are in a corp with just me, and I am not even trying to add additional players. ANY time you are recruiting, you are going to get war decs. I'm loosely associated with an alliance, working with them to achieve goals, but I'm not a member of the alliance, so not effected by their war decs.

When I did run corps, and was in alliances, our main mechanism for avoiding war dec was to limit our recruiting efforts. We would just do people to people contacts, not using the forum or in game recruiting channels.

3) NEVER undock during war, EVER!
The other primary tool for avoiding war dec was a standing order in our alliance/corp. Simply put, NEVER UNDOCK when subject to a war dec. Be prepared to go a week of war dec without undocking. If a war dec extends to a second week, drop to NPC corp, or switch to a temp player corp until the war ends.

This standing order was clearly communicated before accepting anyone into the corp/alliance. In effect, we were not enforcing this policy onto others, just limiting the people we partnered with, to those that had this policy. The getcha was that if you did lose a ship to a war dec, you were kicked out of corp/alliance.


The reaction from PVPers:
This policy, of course, angers those that look at industrialists like me as potential targets. Not my problem it they are unhappy that I refuse to give them what they want.

The response, from some claiming to be war dec'ers, was, not very shockingly, that I should give them what they want.... a fight. Hmmmm.... ask a rich person how to make the economy better, they will say that we need to lower the taxes on the rich so that they can get richer. Conviction behind self-serving statements does not make them true! Historical research shows that some of the best economic times accompany a VERY steep tax code with lots of deductions, designed to keep money moving instead of allowing it to pool into too few hands. History has shown me, and the vast majority of the high sec carebears I talk to (which is a lot), that if you give a war dec-ing corps a fight, you get more and longer war decs.

Their proposed solution of being prepared to fight back fails on several fronts:
1) I have no interest in PVP. There are ample opportunities to PVP, and I'm not interested in taking advantage of ANY of them. This is why I'm a carebear in the first place.

2) Being prepared to jump into PVP ships, does not protect against many of the tricks these losers use, like logging off in a belt, the using an out of corp alt cloaked up in that belt to watch for war target to show up in the belt. Then, they log in and auto warp to the belt, while their out of corp alt that was sitting there cloaked up bumps the exhumer. Poof, dead.

There are other tricks I've seen used, but I don't want to give out too many ideas. One is sufficient to disprove the assertion.


Changing the way I play:
You can't force me to play EVE in any way other than the way I enjoy playing it.

Seriously, there is NO game mechanic tweak, no rebalance of reward, no other idea from you, that will make me accept being an easy target, that will force me to fight, or that will change the way I play.

You can't force me to play, so you can't force me to play in any other way. If you attempt to change the way I play, I will simply stop playing. AND, despite what some assert, CCP wants me, and those like me, to play. This is why CCP has made the mechanisms that make us carebears safe, and it is why they won't remove those game mechanics.

PVPers need to accept that high sec is FULL of people that think just like me, and CCP will ensure that we keep playing. Therefore, rather than wasting time and effort trying to think of ways to alter the way I play into a way that you want me to play, your time would be better spent figuring out fun and interesting ways of doing ship-to-ship PVP against other players that actually have an interest in ship-to-ship PVP.


Paying with PLEX:
In addition to the base "EVE would be better without you" argument that I'm sure CCP will continue to ignore, there is an argument made that by funding my accounts with PLEX means that CCP isn't making any money off me anyway.

In reality, the opposite is true. Not only is SOMEONE paying for the PLEX that funds my account, resulting in revenue for CCP, the PLEX is actually more expensive than just a base subscription renewal.

I can add a month to my account got $15 or year to my account for $131 ($11 a month).
The normal cost for a PLEX is $20, or 12 PLEX is $210 ($17.5 per).
CCP is currently running a sale, 1 PLEX for $17.5 or 13 PLEX for $200 ($15.4 per).

CCP makes MORE off accounts funded by PLEX than from accounts funded directly by the player.

Nope.

They can suicide gank me on very rare occasion, but I wouldn't consider that ship-to-ship PVP and if that starts happening too often I'll just quit playing the game.

So you can drive people out of the area through market PVP, but you shouldn't be allowed to declare war or fight or be able to do anything about it? Where's the consequences that you like so much?

[Someone please find out who this guy's main is, so we can suicide gank him out of the game, if for no other reason so that we can spare future generations from being exposed to bad posts.

It's for the Children!

I was the OP of the locked thread this guy is talking about.

It's true that I would prefer that carebears be less afraid. What I was ranting about originally was that they were forming corportions and weighing down bright-eyed and enthusiastic newbies with their fear and ignorance when they should be emboldening and emporwering them.

Anyone who joins OPs corp will quickly find himself locked into a version of the game with all fun drained out of it. They will become like golems: unreal facsimilies of humans built only for drudgery and toil. They will quit and the entire game will be worse of for the fear and ignorance of people like the OP here.

That's what I object most to.

So do I.

I want there to be lots and lots of ship-to-ship PVP between players that really enjoy PVP.,

I think we can easily have that without forcing carebears out of the game, because there are lots and lots of players that enjoy PVP. Unfortunately, too many of those PVPers are wasting too much time wringing their hands over the fact that some players are not interested in PVP.

Your threads get locked because you're a terrible troll.

He never said that war decs should not be allowed. Hes just pointing out that if you want PvP space combat then war deccing a industrial corp that turtles is a waste of your time and ISK.